<p>What is the expectation/experience of posters on this board re S/D completing BA/BS in 4 years? S is planning on engineering which, even in H's (BSEE/MSEE) day, was very tough program and some schools made it a 5-year program from the get-go.</p>
<p>Many schools seem to post stats on % graduating in 6 years. Not what I wanted to know, thank you very much: 2 more years = 1 less Hummer (lol).</p>
<p>My theory, based on no information really (why bog myself down) is that some lesser schools encourage the lighter course load, etc. as a revenue-enhancement tool - keep their paying customers around as long as possible.</p>
<p>I wouldn't consider the trend to be caused by schools trying to extract the most possible dollars from students over the greatest length of time so much as it's the result, at large state schools particularly, of cost-cutting measures that limit course offerings and financial aid.</p>
<p>I recently asked my oldest d, now a senior at W & M, how many of her friends would be graduating on schedule - turns out almost all of them will. Her 2 best friends from hs actually have already graduated in 3.5 years - one from a small LAC and one from a SUNY. </p>
<p>D has never experienced any difficulty in registering for required classes or meeting distribution requirements, even though she changed majors as a sophomore. If she'd wanted a more obscure major than bio, however, she could have run into difficulty. She's also into long-range planning, which probably helped keep her on track.</p>
<p>Given the availability of summer sessions and distance learning options at most colleges, AP credits going in, and the ability to transfer some credits from other schools, I think it is probably easier, from a logistics viewpoint, to graduate on time or even early. Students who take the five year plan either have not planned out their course of study, had a late change in major, studied abroad in a program that set them back in terms of required courses or took time off for personal or financial reasons. Getting everything done in four years, particularly if one has a double major, does require forethought and sometimes making some tough decisions regarding course selection from 1st year on. My daughter, a senior at Fairfield, has a double major, studied abroad, rowed for three years and was able to take a reduced load for her final semester in order to complete her senior thesis. To do this she had to not take all the electives she might have wanted and consistently consult with her advisor and the academic dean to make sure that her academic decisions kept her on track to graduate with her class.</p>
<p>We live in MI so know a large number of kids attending UMich. Many people have said that graduating in 4 yrs from a large State school is next to impossible, but we have not seen that at all. My oldest son's friends who went there ALL graduated in 4 yrs. My two younger ones are there now and I expect both will graduate on time. The middle one changed majors onece or twice, but will still finish on time. Youngest wants to double major in engineering and plans to do it in the four years. I think that if the kid is organized and generally knows what they want (changing from History to engineering may lengthen the time) it can certainly be done easily.</p>
<p>I agree with Mol10e, that it is not that difficult to graduate in 4 years with all of the options available. The problem is that some kids need a push to take advantage of those options. When my son flunked a big ticket course, that finally gave him the incentive to spend a miserable summer taking 12 credits which was important in giving him the credits needed to graduate as he was already a couple of credits light from dropping courses earlier. It is not smart to figure that you can add those credits on in the end as those senior and junior years are often filled with advanced level requirements that may not be easily fulfilled elsewhere. For instance leaving that required math course to the very end could really hurt if the student really hates math, and requires a lot of time to do well on it. If you have that thesis and some advanced level courses that take time and effort, you do not want to have an ornerous requirement left even if it is an intro level course. My son's close friend who did not graduate last year though it was his 4th year, took calc (for the third time) over the past summer and then had some clean up courses to take this past semester so he was a term and some before graduating. But he did go to a large state university and was pretty much behind right from the beginning when he registered too late to get the courses he really needed to graduate on time. Then attempting the calc and dropping it twice did not help--maybe it was more than that as he took it once over the summer and failed it as well. </p>
<p>A lot of kids who "graduate" may be a few credits short but are allowed to "walk" in the ceremony. They get the actual diploma when they come up with the credits, perhaps after the summer or the following semester. You don't find this info in many handbooks, but I do know that some school will let the kid "walk" through the services if they are within a semester or so of graduating. This also occurs at highschools.</p>
<p>I see many parents very intent on certain majors for their kids when they start colleges, only to find that by the time they hit junior year, all they want is for the kid to graduate. Scrape together those danged credits, and major in whatever gets you out on time, even if it is basket weaving. With another $40K+ year looking them in the face, the object becomes "get out of Dodge with what you can". And summer school at a private college at $700+ per credit is not a cheap option. In the early years, it is better to get those "fluff" credits taken care of at cheap ccs or state schools in the summer and use the expensive private college for the advanced and specialty courses that you cannot easily get elsewhere. A warning not to use "easy" schools for foundation courses as they may not be as thorough as needed to build upon at some schools, particularly tech schools.</p>
<p>Both of my kids finished in 4 years in rigorous schools. There wasn't any question of taking longer.</p>
<p>At the public university where I teach, 70% of the students work part-time. I think the situation at my (public) university isn't unusual. They need this to pay their costs, but also to enjoy some of the things they feel they want to have while in college. Often part-time workers end up being part-time students as well. In the day when many large public universities were virtually totally subsidized by state taxes (general revenues), tuition costs were modest or practically nonexistent. Nowadays it's a totally different story.</p>
<p>Mackinaw, that is a really good point. Many kids do end up going part time especially commuters. Or if they are going to a local school, they may move out of the family home, and go part time. I see this here as well in the last several places where I lived. This does not seem to happen as much for kids who go some distance to school and are on aid packages probably because you do have to go full time to keep some of that aid. I know Pitt, has many, many part time students. Many times parents try to pay that tuition but after that first year things can happen to make it difficult or not possible. I always say that second year is the worst. Especially with a second child.</p>
<p>mack and jami - excellent point re part-time. I was thinking of kids going full-time and taking extra years. I wasn't clear on the various ways that might occur, but these posts have helped see several - registration problems, lack of planning, repeating courses, etc. So far,I don't see much in the way of "light loads so it won't interfere with my partying", which is what I guess I had envisioned.</p>
<p>S is a fourth-year senior at UCLA and will graduate "on time" in June. He considered finishing up his coursework one quarter early but decided to continue with taking additional courses in areas that he enjoyed (design|media major), especially since he's now a California resident. He's also worked part-time, sometimes up to 15 hours/week, throughout college. From talking with recent alumni, it seems that some majors do have a lot of required courses to take in addition to GE requirements. Also, many students preferred to take three courses/quarter instead of four, so it'll take longer.</p>
<p>Little Mother
How did you son become a California resident? Is it from working and filing taxes? I did not know that your child could be a resident of state that they are attending school at.</p>
<p>My daughter is an education major at a small private college and has said that since she's required to double major, all of her classes will have to line up just right for her to graduate in time. I think in general, education majors have a tough time because it's the state that mandates the curriculum and then the colleges add on their own rules. I've heard of other education majors having the same problems here in PA.</p>
<p>chocoholic -- you <em>can</em> establish CA residency as a student, but you must demonstrate that you intend to make CA your home (with several ways to show that) and must be financially independent from your parents (requirements, from the UCSB website: the student must be unmarried, not claimed as a dependent for tax purposes by either parent for the current and two tax years preceding the quarter for which classification as a resident is requested, and demonstrate self-sufficiency for the current and two preceding tax or calendar years (having a job, I'd guess?). See this page for more details: <a href="http://www.registrar.ucsb.edu/residenc.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.registrar.ucsb.edu/residenc.htm</a>).</p>
<p>One way to make sure they take graduating in four years seriously: making it clear that you'll only pay for four years! This has a way of concentrating the mind...</p>
<p>Also, both schools my kids went to really encourage getting thru in 4, esp my son's school which has limited space.</p>
<p>I made it clear I would only pay for 4 years and it backfired. daughter ignored signs that she was in academic trouble and she is having to take a year off and retake the class.
All indications are that our EFC is going to be significantly larger this year as well, not to mention her advisor will be gone next year along with most of the friends that she began with. I don't know what is up with EFc, perhaps the changes in Pell affected it?</p>
<p>Many engineering schools offer co-op programs which require five years to complete. (Some offer four-year co-op programs, too, but students at four-year programs don't get as much work experience.) No amount of planning can result in early graduation for most co-op students. On the upside, co-op programs are excellent paths to future employment - and help finance the student's college education.</p>
<p>a simple way to set the stage early, is something a CEO of a company told his D at winter break: "honey, really proud of your first semester at college and I think it would be great to take your time, and enjoy college for 5+ years. BUT, I'm only paying for four. So, you should plan accordingly!"</p>
<p>One of the things we consciously investigated at each potential school S considered applying to was the likelihood of it taking >4 years to graduate (= bad thing). The local rumor mill said that at some large excellent state schools (e.g. Berkeley), it was not often possible to register for the courses you needed in your major and you ended up taking an extra year to get them all in. We were assured by several profs in the depts. my S is interested in that this is not the case.</p>
<p>You can see the statistics based on race and gender and their chance of graduating in 4,5 or 6 years. Of course, how any individual does is a matter of personal choice and institutional opportunity. Students who have to work or have other obligations can find their schedules in conflict. Sometimes students take longer because they learned something that caused them to switch majors (and requirements.) </p>
<p>The tour guide on UCLA campus made this comment. If you are unwilling (or unable) to get up before 9 or to take a Friday class you will find your chances to get requirements filled in a timely manner difficult. Students who are willing to get up and take the early class and stay on campus Friday afternoon tend to finish in four years. She also suggested going to meet professors during their office hours early in the semester so later on, when you do have a problem (like getting signed on to a future class), they know who you are.</p>
<p>Without a question, sometimes students take longer because classes were underfunded and cut or reduced. "Have you supported your public colleges or your alma mater lately?" A check is great, a letter to your legislator will work too.</p>
<p>Chocoholic--S was financially independent for two calendar years--paying all of his bills including tuition from his savings bonds and money that he earned, established residency by registering to vote and getting his CA license, plus worked there steadily throughout the year, and was home for part of winter break and for about a week during the summer. California definitely became his residence when he began school there, and he'll be staying out there after graduation.</p>
<p>My daughter also established residency after enrollment and saved us a ton in her 2,3rd and 4th year. If it says 1 yr residency is required this can be met by taking an apartment that freshman year, (ususally easy to find other kids to take one with) and most importantly filing their own tax return with the new address as resident. There were specific requirements like show residency, be on a lease, have a drivers license and voting in her new state. I've noticed some colleges are closing that loophole and saying that all future years tuition costs are based on that freshman year so check you college.
Daughter graduated in 4 years by going summer. I'm assuming my other children will also have to go summer to graduate on time. But there are SO many considerations, like, changing major, getting into classes, work study. Some kids just need the break in summer.</p>