Four years of HS science -- how important?

<p>A friend of mine is going to Harvard with 3 years of science. Most people from my school (where over 95% of students go to and finish college) only get 3 years of science. But for a lot of people, the 3rd year is AP, and all AP sciences besides EnviSci are double bells, so that may make a differences.</p>

<p>He's got the big three (Bio, Chem and Physics), including an AP, so as long as the rest of his schedule is rigorous, I'd think he'd be fine. It makes sense in light of his interests. It's worth a call to the colleges at the top of his list, though. If he's so inclined, maybe he could pick up a science course at the local community college during the summer, or through IVHS (I'm assuming from your user name that you're in Illinois).</p>

<p>Three years, given that it is bio/chem/physics is fine. My child's school sends 100% of grads to good to excellent schools - they are fine with three years of science for non-science types.
To Consolation - you have to ask CTY to put courses on transcripts.</p>

<p>Everything is negotiable, but you don't want to stand out (in a negative way) either. Don't give them a reason to select someone else over your son. Is 4 years of science "critical"? Not in the sense that it is "critical" to have a GPA above 2.0. Is it "highly desireable": Yes.</p>

<p>4 years of: English, Math, Science, Foreign Language, and Social Studies. That is the "Recommend" track for college bound students. For "highly selective" schools, it is "highly recommended". Required? No. Critical? It all depends if your son has other notable qualities (top national jazz sax player?).</p>

<p>My older kids wanted Orchestra and Choir, so they had to give up other electives. My youngest is not so interested in Choir, so she may end up with 6 Science classes.</p>

<p>In previous posts, adcoms and parents have discussed the phrase "recommended" in the context of college apps, and the consensus is that it really means "required". While there are always exceptions, such as the examples listed above, are you comfortable assuming your son will be in that catagory?</p>

<p>Seeking merit aid in this competitive, budget-tight era, wouldn't you feel more comfortable knowing your son had done everything to show his intellectual promise? </p>

<p>Colleges know students typically change their majors 2-3 times over the course of their four years. Unless he's applying to a music conservatory, the 4 years of science might demonstrate his academic drive, and thus tip him into the merit aid pile.</p>

<p>My humanities oriented daughter has 4 years of everything including math and science. And her sister who is more science/math oriented will also follow the same foodsteps, 4 years of everything including lots of writing. Like my husband who has a Phd in engineering often says, you'll never know what you need at work until 30 years later.</p>

<p>"Seeking merit aid in this competitive, budget-tight era, wouldn't you feel more comfortable knowing your son had done everything to show his intellectual promise?</p>

<p>Colleges know students typically change their majors 2-3 times over the course of their four years. Unless he's applying to a music conservatory, the 4 years of science might demonstrate his academic drive, and thus tip him into the merit aid pile."</p>

<p>I don't think this can be overstated enough. 3 years of science may be fine for meeting the "recommended" requirements for acceptance to a particular college, but if the OP is really hoping for merit $$, then I think his S needs to stand out from 95% of the applicants to that college. My son took 4 years of all the recommended subjects, as well as AP music theory, and was awarded a Trustee [ full tuition] scholarship at the U he attends, which is awarded to only 3% of the applicants each year.</p>

<p>Depends.</p>

<p>A lop-sided profile can work very well in admissions... but it has its pitfalls.</p>

<p>My d. applied to colleges with 2 years of lab sciences (chem + bio); 2 years of math, through advanced algebra. She was admitted to some very prestigious schools (U. of Chicago, Berkeley, etc.). But her weakness & math & sciences was offset with a strength in foreign languages, plus study of an atypical language for high schoolers -- 4 years of Russian through an AP pilot class, plus time spent studying abroad in Russia. </p>

<p>The high end schools that admit her typically give need-based aid, but are not places where she could have expected merit aid.</p>

<p>She was easily admitted to safeties, but was waitlisted from some schools that were thought to be matches. This lead me to the conclusion (admittedly based only on limited anecdotal data) - that the lopsided strategy only works at the schools that are carefully targeted. (We had done some research to identify schools with strong Russian departments coupled with very small undergraduate enrollment in their Russian classes, figuring those would be the schools that wanted what D. had to offer -- and played up d's interest in pursuing Russian study on the apps to those schools). </p>

<p>So my sense would be to look at the question not from the perspective of what your son will be missing, but what will stand out from his transcripts and look strong. What are the 2 or 3 strongest points from the resume he will present to colleges, how will he play them up... and where will he "sell" them?</p>

<p>The problem is: I don't think this is a good merit-aid hunting strategy, unless by "merit aid" you mean you will be satisfied with a somewhat token amount. (My d qualified for need-based grants of double to triple the amount she was typically offered in merit awards). Maybe if my d. had been lopsided in a different way -- but she didn't have a strength likely to attract a lot of money. I think in most cases, for significant money, the student needs to be very strong against the entire pool of likely-to-be-admitted students. On the other hand... if your son takes a lab science his senior year that he doesn't want to take, and gets a B in class -- I don't see how that helps for merit money either. </p>

<p>So maybe the real answer is: you need to do your homework on figuring out whether the merit aid plans are realistic and where your son will go with that. In some cases, his high school record won't matter -- for example, if his PSAT score means he is likely to be a National Merit finalist -- then the offers are going to be based on the numbers, and unlikely to be influenced by his choice of classes senior year.</p>

<p>dad, Our son didn't want to take science OR math senior year. We agonized over the decision, but he was adamant that his arts interests are what made him who he is. He did get into a very good college (Williams) I believe because of his accomplishments in the arts so in retrospect, even though omitting science and math was risky, it was the right thing to do. </p>

<p>The key I think is to accentuate the positive in his application. I'd suggest that he submit a package highlighting his musical activities -- a performance tape, a supplemental recommendation from a mentor or instructor, a resume with music-oriented awards, classes, accomplishments, one or two media articles.</p>

<p>The irony of my son's situation is that he eventually migrated toward an interest in architecture and ended up suffering through calculus and physics anyway. :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
it's Music Theory he'll be taking, not Music Appreciation

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/145947-has-anybody-taken-ap-music-theory.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/145947-has-anybody-taken-ap-music-theory.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What is his intended major in college? If he is going to be a music major, AP Music Theory is of minimal benefit. It may help him place a little higher in the theory placement tests, but that is about it. Most schools will not accept AP Music Theory for Music Majors.</p>

<p>He says he's not going to be a music major but plans to keep playing and pursuing his music passion on the side. A music theory class would be part of that. Since he has busted his tail doing all the right things in high school, I am not inclined to stand in his way and make him take another science class he's not interested and wouldn't necessarily help him. But we are carefully weighing the advice of the last several posters in particular and will probably incorporate some of that strategy when it comes to college contacts and applications.</p>

<p>OperaDad, thank you so much for linking the other thread. I have been looking for info on that class for D for next year. The talk around the school is that it is the hardest AP offered, but D really wants to take it.</p>

<p>Ap Music theory is a hard class, but if you love music, especially classical music, are musically talented, can sight read well, and want to learn the basics of music composition, it is a great class. My son, who has played classical piano for 12 years now, loved it and did very well. He scored 5's on all parts of the AP exam. Now, he did take Music Theory as a Sophomore, so doing as well as he did might have been part of what made him stand apart as an applicant, as all his AP scores were sent to the colleges he applied to. He applied as a Geology major, but let the colleges know he wanted to pursue a music minor as well.</p>

<p>Thanks menloparkmom. I don't want to hijack this thread, but my D loves classical music, is musically talented, can sight read (I don't know how well) and had played piano for 5 years and is now on her 3rd year of guitar. Hopefully, she'll do well.</p>

<p>queen's mom: I didn 't mean to imply in my post she shouldn't take it. Just don't take it with the expectation of getting college credit (like for calculus or chemistry). At the better music schools, the AP Music Theory course comes no where close to the music theory the college teaches.</p>

<p>Also, the Aural skills may be integrated into the music theory sequence of classes. The kid may end up placing into the harder/advanced sections of music theory (book knowledge) but not have the rigor aural skills training.</p>

<p>Taking the class for the joy of knowledge is fine. In the context of the original question, it may not help the kids as much to get into college as an AP science class may.</p>

<p>No problem, OperaDad. I understood what you were saying. I just wanted to thank you for the other thread-a lot of useful info there.</p>