“in the North there’s no “power” in alum groups”
Tell that to administrators at colleges like Dartmouth where every move to reign in Frats is met by fierce opposition from alums…
“How about this: why do the good ABCs at Whatever College allow the bad XYZs to remain part of the “Greek System” at that college?”
This is an imperfect analogy here, but it’s rather like saying why does the “good” Orchestra allow the “bad” Band to be remain part of the musical extracurriculars. Or maybe why does the “good” tennis team allow the “bad” lacrosse team to be part of the athletic extracurriculars. The good ABC’s simply don’t have any power to push out the bad XYZ’s any more than the tennis team can kick out the lacrosse team.
“Why do the members of sorority DEF continue to go to parties at XYZ after bad behavior?”
That’s the one I wish I had an answer to. Some girls like bad boys. I don’t get it. I think the sororities should be more unified informally in refusing to send girls to “bad” fraternities. However, if a sorority were to try to restrict the movements of its girls, then they’d be tarred with the “see? they control your life, they tell you what to do, who to socialize with and not socialize with, conformist conformist” brush.
It isn’t just that girls show up for parties. For some reason, groups with bad reputations continue to attract membership. Why don’t they just wither away and die due to lack of anyone interested in pledging? Why does anyone, male or female, want to attend their parties?
I gave my answer. What’s yours?
Because people are complicated and have good and bad sides.
I think part of the answer may be entrenched social power. If the cool (or rich or athletic) guys have always joined XYZ fraternity, then they will join it next year, even after bad behavior. If XYZ’s parties are where those cool guys are, then that’s where girls who want to meet cool guys will go.
But I thought a lot of colleges had a Greek “system” with some kind of governance beyond individual houses. Why aren’t the good houses more active in sanctioning the bad houses? Is it because the bad houses tend to be the cool ones?
I asked my daughter what girls go to parties at the bad fraternity (after freshman year, anyway), and she said it’s the girls with no self-respect.
“But I thought a lot of colleges had a Greek “system” with some kind of governance beyond individual houses. Why aren’t the good houses more active in sanctioning the bad houses? Is it because the bad houses tend to be the cool ones?”
TBH, I don’t really know how it works. I am under the impression that the Panhel or IFC associations are still run by the college (though students are officers, etc.) and that if a chapter “is bad,” Panhel / IFC could publicly condemn it, but they wouldn’t have the power or authority to kick them off campus (any more, I suppose, than the tennis team could kick the lax team off campus). One can easily see how in the hands of the unscrupulous, that could become Lord of the Flies. “Oh look, the Sigma Chis are getting the hottest chicks, so if we band together and find so much as one beer can in their garbage, we can kick them off …”
Maybe it would be worth accepting the risk that that could happen a couple of hundred times. It still might be worth it for those councils to be more aggressive in policing houses.
I guess the question is – who’s got the power to kick another student group off campus? What other analogous situations are there where a federation of affiliated clubs can discipline a member?
Let’s say Sigma Nu does something bad at UW-Madison. Sigma Chi at UW-Madison doesn’t have any power to do anything. It is up to the IFC, National Fraternity office, and officials at the University to make the decision.
If Sigma Chi publicly comes out and says “We think Sigma Nu should be kicked off campus”, that doesn’t mean anything. Sigma Chi’s opinion is not going to be taken into consideration.
Other random houses have no power to expel, and IFC will only expel if it has to because IFC’s job is to keep greek life growing and healthy.
Because sororities are understanding that a few bad members don’t make a chapter. They don’t generalize and stereotype. Also fraternities control the social scene on most campuses
It seems like the IFC is pretty weak. Does it have to be? Does it provide benefits that it can withdraw? Sometimes to keep something healthy, you might have to cut off diseased branches.
I don’t disagree with you about cutting off diseased branches - and I have NO issues with colleges and/or national orgs cutting off those diseased branches quickly. My S’s chapter was on probation for something I consider very minor, but it was technically in violation of the university’s law. Well, ok, then. Take your lumps. I have no problem with the punishment they received.
I guess here’s another analogy: A college may have several student newspapers - maybe one is the mainstream campus and city news, one is from a conservative point of view, one is from a liberal / progressive point of view, one is humor / satirical, etc. Maybe there is some association of those newspapers from the perspective of issues that affect all of them (access to printing facilities? distribution channels?) - but the mainstream and the progressive and the humor one don’t really have the “right” to kick the conservative one off campus if the conservative one “misbehaves” - that would presumably be the job of the university. Make sense?
I think when people talk about “the Greek system” they need to understand that there really aren’t that many commonalities between the Sigma Chis and the Sigma Nus institutionally, so to TG’s point, if the Sigma Chis say the Sigma Nus should be kicked off campus, it’s sort of a “great, what business is it of yours.”
IFC has interest in keeping greek life strong. So yes, if something really bad happens they’re going to stop affiliation with the chapter. But they are going to do whatever they can to sanction instead of kill houses.
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slides in to check if a certain university down south is getting lambasted...nope...just general Greek berating.... <<< happily slides back out....
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