<p>Another problem with fraternities? The “Animal House” isn’t an especially eclectic zoo.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the link. On CC, the debate will never be settled between those who favor outlawing greek life organizations and those who think they are fine with it. I think the op ed makes good points about students self segregation into like minded groups. I think that some colleges which divide students into housing units without an application process or self segregation and which provide on campus housing for all four years may be able to avoid such problems. There are many large universities that do not offer on campus housing to all students after freshman year, and some perhaps offer two years. That encourages students to seek out greek life for housing (easier than an off campus apartment to many) in many cases.</p>
<p>My own personal feeling about greek life is that even though many good things come out of it - friendships, charity work, support - there are many awful things too. Hazing, underage drinking, sexual assault, and drugging of women are all illegal, but not unheard of. They are heard of too much. On the just undesirable side of things, there is a lot of making fun of others, and exclusionary behavior that is not admirable at all. This goes on within houses and between houses, and includes sororities as well. The few houses that I have heard of where the students are quite studious and perhaps not overindulgent in the illegal and bad behavior are inevitably branded as the nerd houses, and they are often shunned by other greek houses. </p>
<p>When I arrived as a freshman to my own college, I was ignorant of the extent that greek life played in the social scene. It was overwhelming. My orientation counselor took out a map and X’d out those houses to which she thought we should never go. It wasn’t because those were the bad boys - those were the nerds. I knew a nice guy from my summer job who was in one of the X’d out places, so I didn’t take her too seriously, but the very idea of doing that is something I will never forget.</p>
<p>The schools should get rid of all of the fraternities and affiliations. I agree that they are a pox on campus life. </p>
<p>Thanks for posting. In that piece, there was a link to this: </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-01-07/dean-wormer-s-favorite-editorial”>http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-01-07/dean-wormer-s-favorite-editorial</a> with further links within it. Very interesting.</p>
<p>My son is in a fraternity. His school only has one house that was grandfathered long ago. I have talked to him at length about this issue prior to him joining and since then. His fraternity is nothing like what I am reading about. They do a lot of charity work and they seem pretty diverse to me. </p>
<p>My son was in a fraternity too. They had all ethnicities and races in their chapter. The president was black. Many members were Hispanic and Asian. They worked hard to have the highest GPA on campus of any other fraternal organization. S was the library monitor, checking fraternity brothers to see that they were in the library studying during finals week. They cleaned streets in an Adopt a Street Program and raised money for Make a Wish. Stereotyping any type of group is wrong and biased.</p>
<p>When will the stereotyping stop? Not all fraternities are like this. So many chapters do so much good and provide a safe place for students. </p>
<p>The same people who would be aghast to stereotype people on any other dimension feel free to do so routinely against Greeks. They are fundamentally incapable of understanding the difference between “bro” houses where women are objectified, there is hazing, etc. and normal houses where it’s a bunch of guys getting together, forming friendships, doing things that are more hijinks than hazing, and who wouldn’t dream of assaulting a woman. </p>
<p>My fraternity does far more good than bad on campus. Are we a pox? Should we stop raising money for suicide prevention? Should we stop volunteering? Should we stop offering a safe place for people to come party on weekends? </p>
<p>TransferGopher, are all fraternities at your school as good and as safe as yours?</p>
<p>@dstark I don’t have experience with all of them, but I haven’t had a negative experience anywhere. I’m not even in a “top” fraternity. Probably mid-upper level, but not “top”. </p>
<p>Saying all social fraternities are a pox on campus is ridiculous. It’s stereotyping at it’s finest. There are so many fraternities that aren’t classic party hard “bro” fraternities. </p>
<p>I don’t know if anybody is really saying that. If there aren’t any unsafe fraternities on your campus, and there isn’t discrimination, I don’t see a problem. Are they talking about banning fraternities at your school?</p>
<p>Crummy fraternities can ruin things for all fraternities. So, if fraternity members are aware of problem fraternities, they should be on the front lines to close those down. This is in the fraternity members of good fraternities own self interest.</p>
<p>I know there are unspoken pacts. We don’t squeal and turn in our own. Well…then if the tide turns against the existence of fraternities, all fraternities are going to suffer the consequence. </p>
<p>This article and post are both titled “Fraternities: A pox on Campus Life”. Basically saying fraternities are a disease to campus. </p>
<p>We don’t want other fraternities closed down. We want problem members dealt with, whether it is from nationals or through the executive board of the fraternity. </p>
<p>Unlike you, TransferGopher, I do want problem fraternities closed down. Fraternities that keep harboring rapists should be shut down. Fraternities that institutionalize misogyny-- for example by group taunting of women by chanting pro-rape slogans, as happened at Yale-- should be shut down too.</p>
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<p>Let’s not be naive. Fraternities are not going anywhere anytime soon! It would be equally naive that the “Greeks” in general have been at the forefront of eliminating the known bad apples, and this is with the duplicity of the college spineless officials that are prevalent in our academic system. </p>
<p>The dialogues --if you can call the typical discussions- have been peppered by the type of post presented by TransferGopher and are testaments to the three monkeys statues. See, hear, and say no evil is the motto. </p>
<p>Simply stated, as Dstark did, the good fraternities should be the most interested to preserve their status, and be the most vocal about the rampant problems created by their so-called brothers. Yet, they are NOT, and not by a mile. </p>
<p>At this stage, it is not feasible to push an agenda of eradicating all Greek life from every campus – even if such measure would greatly enhance the safety and well-being of about everyone involved. At best, one could hope for stronger penalties against the perennial abusers, and perhaps more and more schools showing the courage that is needed to eliminate the problem at its roots. This is the message every President should know: “But Williams College in the 1960s, Colby College in the 1980s and other schools at other times decided to eliminate fraternities and didn’t suffer any great cost or disruption.” In so many words, we need more Williams and Colby, and a lot fewer schools such as Dartmouth when they were headed by Dr. Kim!</p>
<p>Few people have the courage to confront the truth about fraternities. If frats are really as good as they pretend to be, show the world that you are REALLY willing to clean the houses from the bottom up, and this until only “good” ones are left. History is NOT on your side! </p>
<p>Why can’t kids do all the wonderful things TransferGopher is talking about, OUTSIDE the context of a Greek organization? Do Greek houses have a monopoly on philanthropy and comradeship? I hardly think so.</p>
<p>“Crummy fraternities can ruin things for all fraternities. So, if fraternity members are aware of problem fraternities, they should be on the front lines to close those down. This is in the fraternity members of good fraternities own self interest.”</p>
<p>Those of you with zero experience in Greek life don’t get that the members of Gamma Gamma Good simply don’t have any “power” or commonality over the members of Beta Beta Bad. It’s as ludicrous as saying that the “good” tennis team should really do something about the “bad” lacrosse team. Sure, they all play sports and wear uniforms. That’s about all they have in common. </p>
<p>Did Yale do anything to those students who shouted offensive misogynist things? Were they disciplined or expelled? </p>
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<p>@CardinalFang: Stop beating up that strawman. I need it for another argument on the internet. </p>
<p>I don’t think there is much debate about closing down “problem fraternities.” The issue is the alacrity with which folks around here are willing to conclude that all fraternities are “problem fraternities.” I’ve had to have two discussions with my son recently. One was on making sure he’d have the courage to stand up for a potential assault victim if he saw something awful happening in his presence. The other was about how to deal with an increasing chorus of people who assume he’s a likely felon because of the social organization he chose to join. Neither conversation was pleasant. </p>
<p>@TransferGopher “Should we stop offering a safe place for people to come party on weekends?”</p>
<p>Just came across this new report : <a href=“Two men charged with raping teen girl at Johns Hopkins University frat house in Baltimore: cops ”>Crime News - New York Daily News;
<p>Neither the rapists nor the victim were members of the fraternity in question. They were not even students at this university. Perhaps some rapists see the frat party scene as some sort of hunting ground. My question to you… </p>
<p>Does your fraternity have any measures to avoid this situation since you claim to be “offering a safe place for people to come party”? How would you feel if this crime took place in your bathroom?</p>