<p>Our son is strongly leaning towards Music Education, and for this reason, favors Fredonia from his selection of SUNY colleges. He recognizes that his choice of major, as well as career opportunities, could change and he wants to keep his options as open as possible. His SAT scores are 700, 700 and 800; ACT 33.</p>
<p>We have seen and heard plenty of enthusiastic endorsements of Fredonia for its Music courses. Can anyone tell us whether the other disciplines are equally stimulating there?</p>
<p>RobL, welcome. You may get detailed info on Suny academics within CC’s Alpha Listing of Universities <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/colleges-universities/[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/colleges-universities/</a> There are a few SUNY specific forums (as well as a general SUNY sub forum) there.</p>
<p>A few Fredonia threads from here, but not much on overall academics
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/651688-suny-fredonia-syracuse.html?highlight=SUNY[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/651688-suny-fredonia-syracuse.html?highlight=SUNY</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/457544-suny-fredonia-oneonta.html?highlight=SUNY[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/457544-suny-fredonia-oneonta.html?highlight=SUNY</a></p>
<p>Have you investigated if they have an honors level program?</p>
<p>Snow and Cold :-))</p>
<p>Violadad- Do you just have good memory of these threads, or do you search them? You’re pretty impressive.</p>
<p>musicallylatin, thanks for the compliment. In general, I have pretty good memory and recall, and a fair topical knowledge of past threads. Having had a son gone through the BM process, I also have an additional collection of specific info amassed through the years, bookmarked and categorized, as I’m sure have many posters with “skin in the game.”</p>
<p>Part of it is knowing how to search. I’m far from an expert, and been stymied many times by CC’s search engine and/or my own inadequacies.</p>
<p>The links provided in response to the OP’s question are fairly recent from a topical sense; additionally new members are often not aware of the number of sub-forums or their content, so pointing them in an alternative direction is a “no-brainer”.</p>
<p>And, as others have said, some of us here have too much time on their hands.</p>
<p>Constant war with Sylvania?</p>
<p>Sorry, that’s Freedonia.</p>
<p>Violadad, thanks for the links. I read those threads and browsed around in other sub-forums (sub-fora?) and got a partial answer to my original question. I’d still welcome more input.</p>
<p>Yes, my son has been admitted to the honors program, so presumably that should raise the bar somewhat.</p>
<p>On the flip-side, he is also considering Geneseo, which has a fine reputation as a general liberal arts college, but does anyone have any comments on their music program - particularly for clarinet?</p>
<p>And Sagiter -
</p>
<p>Shouldn’t that be Hail Fredonia? ;)</p>
<p>You can certainly major or minor in musical performance at Geneseo and I believe they may be a SUNY Upper Tier school but I can’t find the book. You or your son should contact the clarinet professor:</p>
<p>Ernest Lascell: Clarinet, Saxophone
B.A. Ed. Nazareth College, M.M. Performance Diploma, Northwestern University.
Brodie 113. 245-5824</p>
<p>and talk to him about your options.</p>
<p>Geneseo has the rep of being the hardest SUNY for admissions although I can tell you I know a kid who is well I can’t say it here but he got in :-))</p>
<p>Have visited both schools more than once and have had 3 kids apply to/be accepted to one or the other. When we looked at Fredonia it was specifically for music. They have an assortment of the usual majors for a school that size (4,000), and people say overall there is an “artsy” feel. With those scores, your son might well get a nice merit scholarship too. We were told that Fredonia now has the second highest scoring freshman profile (gpa, test scores) of the SUNY 4 yr. colleges next to Geneseo- this is because of the grades and scores the music kids bring. Sorry that I can’t speak specifically to any academics other than music, but I have known kids to go there for other subjects and be happy. Geneseo is, I believe slightly larger and is well-known for the strength of its academics across the board. Maybe a strong student would be happier there?? As I recall, there is not much available there in pure merit money because “everyone would have to get a merit scholarship”! I can’t speak much about the music dept. there, I only know a couple vocalists who did undergrad there. Seems like some of the faculty come down from Eastman. My nephew graduated from there last year (not music), according to the graduation program, there were only 6 music majors- this could be a down side. Did he apply to Oswego? With those SAT’s, assuming his gpa matches up, he would definitely be awarded a Presidential Scholarship (full tuition for 4 years), and there is a terrific young clarinet professor there. However, like Geneseo, there is no music ed.</p>
<p>Thanks, Musmom2, that was very helpful. Our son has several offers to consider, but ultimately he’s likely to pick one of the SUNY’s, unless someone makes him an offer he can’t refuse. His elder sister is a junior at Geneseo, so we’re familiar with the general picture there, but not with the music department. We looked at Oswego a while ago, but it didn’t appeal.</p>
<p>RobL, if your son is looking at getting his bachelor’s degree in MusED in the SUNY system, there are currently only three choices: Crane (SUNY Potsdam), Fredonia, and Buffalo State (not UBuffalo). Crane and Fredonia tend to jockey back and forth about which program is better. It’s generally agreed that Buff State is in third place.</p>
<p>However, according to NYSED, there are many ways of becoming a state certified music teacher: [Which</a> Pathway is Right for Me?](<a href=“OTI : NYSED”>OTI : NYSED)</p>
<p>Of course, the fastest way to teaching is to get your Bachelor of Music Education degree (and start teaching immediately), and then proceed on to get a Master’s of anything (within 5 years of the original certification). However, you could certainly get a Bachelor of Music/whatever (and then have your choice of music programs in the SUNY system), and the get a Master’s degree in education. </p>
<p>The SUNY music schools are very good. However, I have noticed that this year they have become very selective; probably due to the economy and the number of students auditioning. I have found that many of my very talented students are getting admitted into fairly selective private music schools (Syracuse, Hartt, Ithaca) and being declined from the SUNYs. Fortunately, the private schools are still fairly flexible with financial aid.</p>
<p>We know kids at Fredonia quite well- music peformance- and have to say that the school didn’t pay much attention to academics (at least for the ones we know who have been admitted in the last 3 years), going instead for the stronger peformers and those that had great letter of recommendation. In upstate NY, it is thought that Crane is the go-to school for Music Ed, Fredonia for performance (If one wants to attend a SUNY school and didn’t/couldn’t apply to conservatory or “name” music schools). Geneseo is at the head of the list for academics in the SUNY system and also has an excellent school of education (don’t know where the music fits in there though), or are an “undecided” major; in fact, Geneseo doesn’t really seem to have a “bad” department.
And then there is the whole “upstate NY thing”… snow is a way of life and “flurries” here easily mean 6" of the white stuff while “squalls” indicate that any given location could be facing a foot or more! Then there is the unique " Lake Effect", which only exists in the Great Lakes region; winds blowing across the lakes pick up moisture and then bury the surrounding regions under piles of snow.Many colleges in the area actually have underground tunnels to enable students to gert around campus without having to dress for an arctic expedition! Potsdam is isolated and the weather makes it feel even more so; Fredonia is about an hour from Buffalo, but most folks don’t look at Buffalo as an ultimate destination and the weather there rivals Potsdam’s; Geneseo is not far from Rochester, which, while not NYC, at least has the Eastman School and the Rochester Philharmonic and as a result, many really good music teachers.
“Cranies” are a loyal breed and often mix with the techies from Clarkson; going to WalMart is a big thing for those at Fredonia because the town is really tiny (a car can guarantee instant popularity) while Geneseo makes the “best of” lists in many publications. Each school has something to set it apart and like any other school, is what you make of it. Luckliy, some kids like urban locations while others love the peace and quiet of the more rural areas. I can try to check with some other friends of my D to find out what they know about the music program at Geneseo and I’ll post what I discover.</p>
<p>The stereotypes and snootiness concerning Fredonia and Crane are mind boggling. They are small centered schools and like all others talked about here as meccas have good and bad points. I have heard horror studies about kids at Julliard, Eastman, Hartt, Peabody, Indiana, Curtis, etc. Stories about neighborhoods, muggings, blizzards, midwest kids eaten alive by the big city, etc.</p>
<p>Let’s face it Crane graduates love Crane and are very loyal, Fredonia graduates love Fredonia and are very loyal (though for some reason aren’t called Fredies) there has to be some reason for that.</p>
<p>Every kid is different, every teacher is different and every school is different. </p>
<p>As an extreme example, how happy would any of us have been if our kids were entering freshman at Julliard or NYU, Mannes or Manhattan School on 9/12/01 ? </p>
<p>For the most part all the entering freshman are teenagers if they can’t deal with some snow or cold or whatever how are they do deal with the real world ?</p>
<p>I’ve been to Hartford, Baltimore, Rochester, Phila and Bloomington recently, they are all nice places to visit … for 3 days :-)</p>
<p>Hi, I’m a freshman at Fredonia (Momof3Stars’ daughter, actually, for those of you that have seen her lurking about). I’m also in the honors program at the moment, and i think you said that your son has been accepted for that? Congrats, btw! </p>
<p>Yes, it’s true, Fredonia is quite cold, but it’s not as snowy as you would expect. Then again, this is coming from someone who’s lived in upstate NY all her life haha. In non-weather related news, I’ve found this year that the whole campus is really friendly, and there are tons of music-related and non-music related student groups worth looking at. Plus there’s SUCH a good music scene even aside from music school related events. For example, we have an awesome radio station, which anyone is allowed to have their own radio show on, and there’s Open Mic Night every two weeks or so, which is free to perform in or watch, and it’s so fun to go. </p>
<p>On the school-related side…if your son feels like he wants to do the honors program, he should totally go for it. You only have to take 4 honors courses in the entire course of college, which is even easier cause they count for CCC credits too. And the courses they offer are awesome. For example, I’m taking a Theatre Arts course called “The Entertainment Imperative” this semester, and a couple of the courses offered for next semester included one about the psychological effects of the Holocaust (social sciences) and a western civ. course focusing on Dante’s Divine Comedy and his life. </p>
<p>I think that’s about all I can think of to tell you right now. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!</p>
<p>Something interesting you might like about the honors program is that there are lots of music students in it, especially music ed. And the fact that we get to sign up for classes before anyone else (excluding entering freshmen of course), is really, REALLY handy as a music student, seeing as secondary instrument classes are usually limited to 15 people or less. Also, I have a friend who is a Euph music ed major, and she loves Barry Kilpatrick. If you have any questions for her, I could definitely ask.</p>
<p>Assuming your son is really serious about music education at SUNY, it should come down to Fredonia v Potsdam.</p>
<p>In answer to your question, if your son is merely a diligent student, his high SAT scores would suggest that he could coast through just about any college in the country, including Fredonia and Potsdam, so I don’t think that non-music academic rigor is the most relevant factor in deciding which school to attend. </p>
<p>Indeed, if he is an extremely driven student, his high SAT scores suggest that he can probably accomplish great things at just about any college, publish important work and move on to bigger and better things.</p>
<p>And if he is somewhere in between, it would be good to have inspiring and supportive faculty to push him in the right direction, but finding those one or two mentors probably has more to do with luck/fate than anything else.</p>
<p>Fredonia has a remarkable physical plant (indicating powerful friends in Albany) and a great caring hands-on student-centric administration, both of which are far more impressive than even the vast majority of private schools. I think that the faculty generally follows the administration’s lead in that regard, and that is what tips the scale for me.</p>
<p>Good Luck</p>
<p>For what its worth, my gut feeling/prejudice is that both the students and the faculty at Fredonia trend towards a stereotypical midwestern overly cheery attitude, which is occasionally deadened by snowbound cabin fever. At Potsdam, my sense is that there is a trend towards a stereotypical Northern New York gloominess which is occasionally enlivened by a sweaty rugged outdoorsy hardiness.</p>
<p>to robl: some other suny schools you might want to look at for having good to great music schools are Purchase, and New paltz…they are both getting very hard to get into and offer b.a., b.s. and b.m.'s in the schools,plus they are very close to nyc…very awesome for performance.</p>
<p>i personally liked new paltz more than purchase…but to each his/her own :)…and just to let you know if you want to have a strong liberal arts core then dont go to purchase,ive also heard horror stories as long as with many conservatories that the adjunct professors/teachers are all FANTASTIC at playing…but as far as teaching they are not that great at that skill…but best of luck to you, HIGHLY recommend new paltz!(also offers a contemporary music/music therapy degree which i rarely see!), frendonia and potsdam are great too!..good luck</p>
<p>Sorry, don’t mean to argue, but as far as Music Ed goes, Purchase and NewPaltz aren’t in the same league with Crane or Fredonia. But, since things have changed over the past 2 years, Crane has evolved into a school better known for it’s Music Ed program while Fredonia seems to lean more toward performance. I have to smile at Sawdust’s last paragraph, which about summarizes it all! If one didn’t grow up in or spend a great deal of time in upstate NY ( and by that, I mean west or north of Albany), please visit places like Fredonia or Potsdam before plunking down your deposit. They don’t sell more of those lightbulbs for Seasonable Affective Disorder in upstate NY for nothing!</p>
<p>Thanks to all for your valuable comments and observations. Our son will have to make a decision soon, and your contributions to the discussion will play a part in making that decision.</p>
<p>Have to chime in here but I guess different people see different things. I found absolutely no significant difference in the physical plant between Potsdam and Fredonia. I found Potsdam way more forthcoming and student-centric than Fredonia. I think Potsdam is certainly colder weatherwise than Fredonia. I do not beleive at all that Crane is more music ed than performance oriented. I’ve heard people say that Crane is almost conservatory-like with their performance programs though I do beleive performance majors will get out of ant decent music school what they put in and want back.</p>
<p>Attendees will complain about both and parents try to convince themselves that one is better choice than the other. </p>
<p>If performance is your thing the one aspect to make sure of is that your child is comfortable spending the next four years with the studio professor they choose. After that they’re young and will adapt.</p>