<p>I was accepted at both Ithaca College and SUNY Fredonia for music education and viola performance but I'm torn between the two. It's literally 50/50 at this point. I love both teachers i would be studying with so any kind of insight would be helpful.</p>
<p>Is there a cost difference?</p>
<p>I am assuming Fredonia is cheaper so go there. If you are planning on becoming a music teacher, I doubt the difference in prestige (if there is even any at all) will make a difference and you don’t want to go in debt as a teacher.</p>
<p>Both responders have touched om 2 salient points, but there are many more to consider.</p>
<p>I’ve asked the moderators to move your thread to [Music</a> Major - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/]Music”>Music Major - College Confidential Forums) where you can get the benefits of parents, students, and professionals in music.</p>
<p>Are you entering as a straight music ed candidate or a performance/ed dual degree? Have you sat in on studio classes, ensemble performances? Are you comfortable that the peer group of musicians is not well ahead (or worse, well behind) your current talents?</p>
<p>Both schools have good reps for music ed, Fredonia’s rep a bit more regional whereas Ithaca tends to have a broader recognition. Ithaca (without refreshing my memory on applied instrument faculty) is probably a bit stronger for performance but that is instrument contingent. Have you checked placement rates for the last few graduating classes, rates for those still teaching five and ten years down the road?</p>
<p>Do you plan on a Masters (either MM or MMusEd) right out of undergrad? </p>
<p>There are a number of comparison threads for these two programs in the music forum. I’ll pull some links once the moderators have moved your thread.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/992623-opinions-ithaca-school-music.html?highlight=Ithaca[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/992623-opinions-ithaca-school-music.html?highlight=Ithaca</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1081323-ithaca-lawrence-better-music-program.html?highlight=Ithaca[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1081323-ithaca-lawrence-better-music-program.html?highlight=Ithaca</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/672230-fredonia-addition-music-what-does-offer.html?highlight=Fredonia[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/672230-fredonia-addition-music-what-does-offer.html?highlight=Fredonia</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=Fredonia[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/497360-crane-vs-fredonia.html?highlight=Fredonia</a></p>
<p>Dave Rose at Fredonia and Debra Moree at Ithaca are both very capable, but I don’t know enough about individual teaching styles. </p>
<p>Do you have financial packages yet, or are you still waiting? There is a fairly hefty differential between COA at these two.</p>
<p>I plan on doing a double degree in Ed and performance and do plan on doing a masters immediately after. I also have not yet received the financial aid packet.</p>
<p>Without knowing your financial package and unless your parents are in a position to pay regardless, you can make a list of the pros/cons for each. Distance, transportation, general campus feel, locale. Studio size, ensemble depth and quality, success rates of ed grads all should factor in. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/891462-questions-after-acceptance.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/891462-questions-after-acceptance.html</a> with additional links is a series of similar decision making threads.</p>
<p>If grad school is the next step immediately after, and “all other things being equal” in your mind, then I would suggest the option of the school that would cost you the least out of pocket. Many have reported here that Ithaca was not feasible after they had their financial awards.</p>
<p>Do not burden yourself with loans, either as a potential performer or educator. A Masters is pretty much a necessity beyond undergrad. Most states require a Masters in ed for permanent certification and/or pay scale increases.</p>
<p>The poster stradmom’s daughter was accepted but did not attend Ithaca last cycle, the poster car’s daughter currently at Fredonia. Both are violists. Unfortunately, neither auditioned at BOTH. You may want to read through some past posts, or initiate direct contact through CC’s private message or email.</p>
<p>Look through the old Master lists <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html</a> and identify others either in the music ed program or as string students at both.</p>
<p>I’ve also added your acceptances to the current Master List thread.</p>
<p>My daughter, a violinist, was also accepted at both Ithaca College and Fredonia. There are pros and cons to both. Right now, the violin teacher is interim and there is a rumor that he may not return next year. He also commutes from NYC and teaches his lessons on weekends. Not ideal. </p>
<p>We know music student who transferred from Ithaca to Fredonia in his freshman year. He liked the teacher better at Fredonia even though he had a substantial scholarship at Ithaca. Just now, Ithaca students are noticing his absence. He feels there are a lot of diva personalities at Ithaca but their playing is just okay. The orchestra he felt was stronger and he liked the conductor better at Ithaca. At Fredonia, he’s finding a more nurturing and supportive environment. For instance, the father of one of the other students in his studio passed away and all the studio students traveled to the funeral. </p>
<p>The facility at Fredonia is beautiful and is probably the nicest we’ve seen. The dedication and musicianship of the students may not be as high, although this assesment is based on some conversations my daughter has had with a friend who attends there. It may just be him and his group of friends. </p>
<p>Hope this helps and Congratulations!</p>
<p>Suzikimomto2: What have you heard about Crane’s string program vs Fredonia? We are going to need to make some decisions, too. Thanks!</p>
<p>We didn’t visit Crane nor do we know any students who attend there. My daughter chose to apply to only one state school so I don’t know if I’m a good source for Crane vs. Fredonia. I have heard that the facility is nicer at Fredonia. A few years ago the orchestra at Crane wasn’t so good but there is a new conductor who has made improvements which include travel overseas. I only know this because my niece auditioned at Crane and Fredonia in 2010. I’ve also been told that Crane is emphasizing the voice and winds/brass programs while Fredonia is concentrating on strings but I really don’t know if that’s true.</p>
<p>D has a friend, a violininst who has applied to both schools. Her mother told me they were very impressed with Crane.<br>
Fredonia is a nice little town and not to far away from Buffalo which has a great orchestra. I think there might be some collaboration with the BPO? I hear Potsdam is one long lonely drive to the middle of nowhere. </p>
<p>BTW, I think the bass teacher at Fredonia has been there a long time.</p>
<p>I have a son at Crane and my daughter will start in September so I’ll have two there and I guess that has a bias with it so take all this as you may. The middle of nowhere is a relative term. I am on Long Island and futrher east than west. It takes me 6.5 - 7 hours to get to Crane, usually no matter what. It takes me 8-9 hours to get to Fredonia. Fredonia is closer to a major airport than Crane. The one time I considered bringing my son home, I checked, Buffalo was taking no flights. </p>
<p>As to facilities, i rate them equal for now. Fredonia has a new wing attached to an old building. The new building is nice and the old building is old. My son’s studio (low brass). would have been in the old building. So it would have been old. They are about to double the size of the Crane complex. It is due to be complete in 2013. Crane is a very utilitarian building but very functional. I’m not sure what folks look for in a facility but personally I don’t have a problem with crane and the students seem to be fine with it as well. I’m not sure I get the whole nice facility thing myself. I’ve spent considerable time at Harvard and Yale and some facilities at either are older than my town.</p>
<p>Ithaca’s music building is nicer than both. There is almost a 2.5 x differnce in cost between Ithaca and the two SUNY’s. With my son’s scholarships our cost at Crane is 1/5 the cost of Ithaca’s COA. Even if Ithaca gave us 50 - 60% that wouldn’t come close to the SUNY’s. AFAIC if the professor is not head and shoulders above the SUNY’s and you are a NYS resident, there is no reason to attend Ithaca.</p>
<p>Personally, I think both Fredonia and Potsdam (which is where Crane is) are cute little towns in Northern New York. The weather in both is absolutely frightening, more snow in Fredonia, ice and freezing temps in Potsdam (my son got off the bus returning from winter break and it was -29 fahrenheit, real temp !!). It’s something like 180 steps from my son’s dorm to Crane, that’s the facility number I’m looking for :-)) </p>
<p>Don’t know anything about the Crane strings profs except for the fact that I know some string students. They seem as happy as the woodswinds that I know. No one is ever as happy as the low brass folk though. My son’s accompanist is as good as they get if that’s saying something. My son’s performance skills have improved 10 fold in his 1.8 years there and I am amazed every time I hear him play after a break of not seeing him.</p>
<p>In the end, choose on where she’ll feel most comfortable, challenged and well suited. Oh and that cost thing :-)) btw… for Music Ed, the Crane School of Music is one of the oldest institutions training teachers in Music Ed for Public Education in the country (since the 1880’s). Legend has it that 10% of all Music Ed teachers in public schools in the US can trace their roots back to Crane. Just sayin’…</p>
<p>Suzukimomto2 and Sagiter; Thanks!</p>
<p>A question for violadad as you are from connecticut How good is the strings / viola programme @ UCONN and how does it compare to SUNY FREDONIA and ITHACA COLLEGE for performance and music ed concentratioms I know this year they are taking awfully long to send out the acceptance letter which in other words is frustrating for the seniors or class of 2011</p>
<p>UConn is not known for the strength of its strings program around here.</p>
<p>Stradmom: How does your daughter like Hartt now that she has been there for awhile? My son really likes the bass studio.</p>
<p>Musician1, our experience is older than stradmom’s, but the general scuttlebutt appears to be unchanged from what we saw now close to a decade ago. We were underwhelmed with (the performance) program and peer quality of the performing organizations. At the point we looked, there was no dedicated viola faculty. </p>
<p>Now, having said that, programs ebb and flow over time. Seems to have been an influx of new faces in the string department over the past couple of years, including a couple of Colorado Quartet members and Bob Meyer as viola instructor. No specific knowledge of his teaching style.</p>
<p>Within local circles, which typically send a couple of dozen kids a year to highly competitive undergrad conservatory level programs, UCONN is normally not on a shortlist, at least for strings.</p>
<p>A fine choice for music education, but I have no recent experience to evaluate overall instrumental peer quality for a performance aspirant.</p>
<p>I do urge you to see for yourself, particularly if you are local.</p>
<p>I believe violadad was referring to being unimpressed with UConn, not Hartt! 
</p>
<p>@ momofbassist - D is absolutely loving her musical experience at Hartt. Her studio teacher, Rita Porfiris, was absolutely the right match for her, and she has a terrific peer group in performing organizations. She’s a little frustrated at the moment with her chamber music assignment and is hoping to put together a quartet next year rather than taking random assignments. Actually one of the bassists is in her trio…your son maybe?</p>
<p>She turned down some more prestigious programs to go to Hartt (scholarship!) and went in this fall fully prepared to transfer if the “fit” wasn’t there. Now she’s fully committed to finishing out her undergrad there.</p>
<p>Awesome to hear that she likes it!!! I was concerned about the dorm situation, etc since Hartt seems a nice fit for my son. No my son is still a senior and we’re trying to decide where to go in the fall.</p>
<p>Yep, stradmom’s right. My post#16 is in reference to UCONN.</p>
<p>There’s a small herd of bassists at Hartt at the moment, momofbassist, and word on the street is that they’re incredibly talented and there’s great energy in the bass studio this year.</p>
<p>If your son goes to Hartt, have him request Hawk Hall. D is there. It has themed floors - community service, women in science, school spirit, something ecology related, honors, global interest etc. He’ll have to write a short essay to apply, but it’s worth it! There are students from a variety of majors and the dorm is only a couple of years old. The older freshman dorms are, well, … er… he should ask for Hawk! (D does have friends in the older dorms and they have survived, but it’s definitely not the school’s strength!)</p>
<p>We had heard that there was a gap between Hartt students and University of Hartford liberal arts students, and that does seem to have been D’s experience. They really are two different schools, although D has friends in the Hartford honors program whose opinion she respects. </p>
<p>Feel free to PM me with any questions.</p>