<p>Vinceh,
What did you do to prepare your kids?</p>
<p>“no offense but it probably was not spiked just your naivety assuming it was punch” - right… that was part of my point. Not everybody heads off to college a veteran drinker, not even in my day when it was legal.</p>
<p>yes i know, but really do kids not expect to run in to alcohol, especially at a fraternity party.</p>
<p>“but really do kids not expect to run in to alcohol, especially at a fraternity party” - Yes, I definitely agree on that. But free beer goes down a lot slower than free “punch”. Many of the freshman partiers do intend to get very drunk. Some do not. Hopefully most will learn what moderation is needed for their comfort level and their academic survival. </p>
<p>The stories about roommates throwing up are gross but probably common. The funniest story I heard though was after college - somebody aimed for the bathroom of the house to get sick but ended up in the coat closet. It’s easier to scrub down a bathroom.</p>
<p>haha, your points our valid. i think the funniest one i know is a friend thinking his hamper was the toilet</p>
<p>Nightchef, you asked me to elaborate on my comment about a reality gap.</p>
<p>I was responding to your comment “but there’s also a real generation gap here, I think.” I was trying to say that both the kids and the parents on CC tend to define themselves/their children as non-partiers. I don’t think it’s a generation gap at all…I think that there is real denial on both the CC kids and CC parents who state this unequivocally. However, the reality is that everyone isn’t quite so, er, upstanding. Just read the last two pages of this thread. These kids and parents are kidding themselves if they think they are non-partiers. I will concede that there are kids who really truly aren’t partiers, and also that many kids don’t start partying until they go away to college - so they and their CC parents may be in for a rude awakening. Don’t think that your kids “aren’t that type.” You’d be surprised what kids learn and do once exposed to it. That’s the reality (not the generation) gap.</p>
<p>My original comment was that there is a disproportionate amount of families on CC who claim to be non-partiers. Is that reality?</p>
<p>
I suspect that families on CC really are somewhat less likely to be partiers than the average family, because of some self-selection in who posts here. But that probably means that we need to be more attentive to the issue, because we may be more likely to assume that our non-partying high schooler will behave the same way in college.</p>
<p>I would not call our family “partiers”, but we do drink and so do our kids. H and I are competitive athletes, so the term “partier” probably doesn’t apply. I think the term “partier” is really sort of stupid, but my son (recent Ivy grad) sure likes his social life and is a drinker. There are adult posters on CC who will admit to liking alcohol and will admit that their kids drink (gasp- even before they turned 21), but many do claim this could never happen in their families.</p>
<p>Underage drinking or using drugs is not a good thing for so many reasons (motor vehicle accidents, homicides, suicides, injuries,…). I keep telling my kids this & I hope as they approach college they will see why (even in high school they see kids acting “stupid”, as my daughter has observed). There is no reason colleges should allow it - & there is no reason parents should be complacent. When we tell our kids it’s “okay in moderation”, we’re giving them permission to break the law, which is very dangerous! Teenagers are simply not prepared mentally or physically to consume alcohol; their nature is to do things in excess, not in “moderation”. The health risks are hugely significant - including brain, liver & endocrine effects. It is known that the earlier kids begin to use alcohol &/or drugs, the greater the risk of addiction. We should clearly insist that our kids wait until they are 21 to drink alcohol & we must ask our schools to do the same. It is our complacency as parents that puts so many adolescents at risk for all the problems associated with alcohol & drug use.</p>
<p>Wiggle, </p>
<p>Your comments are condescending towards those who have raised children who have managed to avoid the problems that some seem to accept as “normal”. For many of us, there is no “reality gap”. In fact I believe that the “reality gap” is far more pervasive within the community of parents who believe that their children may be drinking a little bit when the reality is that their children are binge drinking and getting involved in far riskier conduct. I can assure you that in my community, that is the real “reality gap” (Gee, mom, I must have gotten food poisoning …)</p>
<p>It is offensive that people think that students who follow the law and take care of themselves are somehow outliers. Many, many more students than people are willing to acknowledge are able to control themselves.</p>
<p>As parents all you can do is point out the legal and physical issues, they will make their own decisions when they are in the moment…it is the nature of youth. As with anything in life it is not a good idea to think it finite terms like “never” especially when it comes to young adults.</p>
<p>I do agree with a poster way back (I think a young poster) that having hall/suitemates grabbing the offending barfers and demanding that they clean up their messes or asking the RA to step up and utilize peer pressure on these kids is a reasonable course of action. I cannot even imagine that it is now suddenly “cool” to drink and barf. Our kids have grown up in an era where all the play yard skirmishes have been neatly curtailed, and perhaps some of the kids just have never learned to stand up and demand a certain behavior from other kids. I’m not suggestin a note that say “Dude, I’m in class, clean this *<em>**mess up or I’ll kick your </em> when I get back” but you get my drift. Goes for girls too.</p>
<p>
Statistically at least, those who don’t drink at all are certainly outliers.
It still seems to me that if you really feel this way, you should send your kids to a college that clearly agrees with this already and that has procedures in place to truly enforce the drinking laws.</p>
<p>The ultimate responsibility does lie with the student, but is it too much to ask for some support from the colleges? My kids attend two different Catholic universities. One appears to take steps against underage drinking, while the other doesn’t. My son was ready to pledge a fraternity, when the university discovered Facebook pictures of drinking occurring inside the frat house. The fraternity was suspended for a year, meaning no new members and no activities. My son was disappointed, but knew there CAN BE CONSEQUENCES for underage drinking. I feel the university is supporting our family values, even though my son was probably one of the law-breakers. Also, when it came to puke in the dorms, son said that a janitor was called in, no matter what hour of the night, to clean it up. They kept track of the number of times this happened and all residents of the floor paid a fine out of their damage deposit to cover the costs. Expecting an enebriated student to clean up after himself/herself isn’t realistic, at least not in a timely manner. Not a fair system, but it does cause others on the floor to discourage this behavior. Daughter just started school and I saw drinking on the front lawns of university-owned housing. The university did offer an activity that night, but few freshmen chose to attend. Instead, most chose to visit the blocks of homes, with the parties. If the campus police would take the time to visit some of these parties, checking i.d.'s, the kids might decide to participate in the official campus activities, which would make it more fun for all involved. All it would take is a few dozen citations to get the message out. So even though my kids may be guilty of underage drinking, I would still want them to know that it’s not right and there can be consequences. Actually, a fine or citation is a minor consequence, when you think about the possibilities.</p>
<p>I think it’s odd for a college to have fraternities and then be shocked–SHOCKED–to learn that there is drinking going on there.</p>
<p>Wiggle, the problem with your POV is the reductionist division of the social universe into “partiers” and “non-partiers,” as if there are no degrees of difference between a teetotaler and somebody who downs 10 jello shots in an hour and then barfs his way back to bed. If there’s a reality gap here, that’s it in a nutshell.</p>
<p>I really don’t want colleges to enforce underage drinking rules, in the sense of busting kids and disciplining them for having even one drink. I doubt that that’s helpful. What I would like colleges to do is try to penetrate this culture of toxic excess, of drinking for drinking’s sake, disrupt that culture if possible, and educate students about alternatives.</p>
<p>
I agree with this. But I think the current drinking age laws tie their hands to some extent. While the increased drinking age may make a lot of sense in some contexts, I really question whether it has improved things specifically on college campuses.</p>
<p>“I think the current drinking age laws tie their hands to some extent.”</p>
<p>I like what my school does. No one cares if an underage group wants to drink/dance/laugh in their suite as long as it doesn’t disturb others. Toxic excess and drinking for drinking’s sake generally disturbs others. Noisiness is generally allowed until 2 a.m. and then squashed only if hallmates complain. Vomit and vandalism in public areas of the dorm get swift consequences, especially from peers.</p>
<p>Also, there are grownups in the dorms. I attended a college without them and a college with them, and I’ve come to believe they are necessary. Too many times, I’ve seen the upperclassman “in charge” intimidated by the troublemaking freshman and his/her friends. You need an actual grownup with authority to protect all the residents of the dorm.</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>You’re right on about that. Easier said than done. I’ll sound like an angry old man saying this (and I’m neither angry nor old) but we have a significant societal problem that is beyond the ability of our colleges and universities. “Jersey Shore” is a top rated TV show. Paris Hilton beat the rap on her marijuana possession in South Africa and promptly got arrested for cocaine (“It wasn’t mine”) after being pulled over because a plume of marijuana smoke was emanating from her vehicle. Lindsay Lohan is out of rehab and jail. The 17 year old alcohol and drug addicted daughter of a US ambassador fell to her death in NYC last week. </p>
<p>A major problem is that we are not dealing with the drug/alcohol abuse issues early in the game. The “prohibition doesn’t work” crowd is right that prohibition doesn’t work. But they fail to analyze why prohibition doesn’t work. One reason why prohibition doesn’t work is because too many parents and educators, because they are incapable of saying no or imposing discipline, fail in their obligation to raise and educate responsible young adults. Further, the disrespectful attitude about drinking laws and the arrogance that leads people to believe that they can pick and choose which laws apply to them breeds a societal disrespect that unfortunately carries far beyond drinking.</p>
<p>I happen to think the 21 year old drinking age is stupid. And I’m inclined to think 18 is the right age. But the problem won’t go away that easily because parents of 16 year old children will think 18 is “only” two years away and their children “need to be prepared” to drink so they’ll turn a blind eye.</p>
<p>The problem is that there is no discipline imposed on problem drinkers and drug using teens until it is so late in the game that significant damage is already done. Universities will hide behind educational privacy laws and say that they can’t tattle when students get puking drunk but the reality is they don’t want parents to know that the students are drinking to that point. So they just shut up.</p>
<p>A better university solution would be to send an itemized bill when a student’s drinking leads to a cleanup situation. Something like:</p>
<p>Date - 9/10/10
Time - 3:15AM
Location(s) - Dormitory hallway, dormitory bathroom
Item charge - Cleaning and sanitizing area of student’s vomit
Amount - The full price of union labor at overtime rates plus a body fluid collection kit</p>
<p>If as a parent you got that bill, would you be inclined to make a phone call? If you got a second such bill, might you consider action?</p>
<p>I fully understand that universities have better things to do that discipline the student that drinks a single beer illegally. And I’m all for discretion in law enforcement. But, as a police officer once said to me, “If you’re going 65, I can ignore you, but when you blow by my marked car at 65, you’re embarrassing me an leaving me no choice.” The students who get out-of-control, puking drunk are embarrassing their schools, and the sooner schools realize and react to that, the sooner that behavior will be reduced.</p>
<p>Remember the OP - it wasn’t a rant about mere underage drinking. It is a fair complaint about puking drunkards causing the $1,000/month SRO hotel being uninhabitable.</p>
<p>The reason the current drinking age laws haven’t improved things on the college campus is that the laws are not enforced. The problem of drinking on campus requires enforcement of the law, which could only have positive effects (short & long term) on the health of our adolescents & young adults. As parents, we should demand it.</p>
<p>Just my $.2, but I really think the drinking age should be lowered to 18. The mother of one of S2’s classmates is a college professor, and she said the raise in the drinking age merely drove the partying underground and created a huge headache for college administrators and campus police. When the drinking age was 18, the partying was out in the open and colleges had some measure of control over it. And campus police had time for doing things other than enforce underage drinking laws. The drinking age of 21 does not prevent anyone from getting alcohol, and I speak from experience.</p>