Frightening Stats -- Drinking Deaths & College Students

<p>Here we are on page 2 and nobody has questioned that stat?</p>

<p>"Nearly 1,400 college students die each year from alcohol-related deaths"</p>

<p>That seems like an unbelievably high number to me. Of course, when you read "alcohol-related death" most people think of the kid who drank to excess, passed out and died from alcohol poisoning or choking on his own vomit. They must be including kids who drove while drunk and died in an automobile crash, as well as kids who were not drinking but were killed by a drunk driver... I would just like to know what the definition is. Otherwise, please post stories every single day of the 3.8 college students that die every day whose deaths are alcohol related. i know there are plenty of stories, but 3.8 every day? Or is it more of a weekend activity. OK, 27 alcohol related deaths every week of the year??</p>

<p>I believe it is a problem, but "frightening stats" indeed.</p>

<p>oh.. just saw mini's reference to pre-gaming, above. I must have skimmed that post too quickly!</p>

<p>If you check out campusdirtdotcom you will see what kids at various colleges are up to on a typical Saturday night. It's pretty scary! I don't remember the binge drinking when I was college age.</p>

<p>Ok, most of us parents of college students will be welcoming our kids back for Thanksgiving, and a Christmas break up to a month in length. How are you planning to handle the partying? I was strict in high school (not always successfully) but I'm a little stumped now. I can and will emphasize not drinking and driving. A friend nearby is planning to have a lot of kids over for New Year's Eve. . .she knows the kids will drink, and they will all sleep over. She doesn't take the car keys but tells me she hasn't had problems in the past. My son will probably want to go there. What is your collective wisdom, oh CC?</p>

<p>I'm a great fan of sleep-overs, especially on NY's eve. I don't want anyone I know driving that night.</p>

<p>I'd love to see Mimi or Papa compile stats on the drinking/substance abuse schools. Personally, I recall college years with lots of alcohol, drugs, eating disorders, and amphetamine pills.</p>

<p>"I'd love to see Mimi or Papa..."</p>

<p>Sounds like someone's grandparents!</p>

<p>LOL @ mimi and papa. hehe! Yikes bookworm I now remember the drugs and amphetamine pills. I think I blocked it out of my memory. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same and all that.</p>

<p>I'm not sure what 1400 deaths/yr really means. Obviously 1 is more than I would like to see, but to use that stat to assess how bad it is requires some comparison. For example; how many college-aged students who are not in college also die of alcohol-related events? Is it more than college students (per capita, of course). 43,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents last year in the US. That's 30 years of college drinking deaths. Also how many college students die of non-alcohol related problems (illnesses, accidents)?</p>

<p>Motor vehicle accidents are the number one cause of death in this age group-some of which are related to alcohol, but many to inexperience, fatigue, etc.</p>

<p>
[quote]
A friend nearby is planning to have a lot of kids over for New Year's Eve. . .she knows the kids will drink, and they will all sleep over

[/quote]

The friend has no business allowing underage kids to drink in her home - especially when the kids aren't her own. She has a lot of liability in doing this and is not doing the kids the service she thinks she is. Hopefully she'll get shut down.</p>

<p>----Ditto----</p>

<p>"I'd love to see Mimi or Papa compile stats on the drinking/substance abuse schools."</p>

<p>All the schools have their own data, and if you ask the school's alcohol/drug coordinator, they will give it to you. But it is proprietary data. I have a lot of it, but I will not publish it without permission, unless the schools themselves have already made it public (as Williams and Duke have). </p>

<p>However, generally speaking, if you follow the associations I posted above: "High binge drinking rates are associated with schools that are: rural, residential, non-commuter, coed, non-religious, heavy in spectator sports, higher median family incomes, heavily white, and having fraternities." - almost always you will see among the highest rates, and as you subtract associations, you will see lower rates.</p>

<p>Often the results of a college's survey are published in the college's paper.</p>

<p>I went to a school where drinking was a matter of pride. We drank a lot. In the 4 years that I was there there were 4 students deaths. 1 each year. To the best of my recollection, none were related to alcohol. But when I was in school, the police and the administration were not trying to shut down the drinking. It was illegal, but everyone looked the other way.</p>

<p>Now you have the administration of almost every school trying to stop all drinking, underage or otherwise, which has resulted in what I believe to be several unintended consequences.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Binge drinking is caused by the necessity of drinking as quickly as possible in order to not get "caught" drinking. Pre-party/pre-game drinking is caused by the inability to drink at the party/game.</p></li>
<li><p>The crackdown on drinking by college administrations and police have caused students to become immune to the concept of lying and cheating. It is perfectly accepted behavior. I didn't need to have a fake id in college because I had fraternity brothers who could legally buy liquor. Now that fraternities are being shut down nationwide the students go to bars and need that fake id.</p></li>
<li><p>While college administrations are cracking down on drinking, it seems to me that most are completely ignoring drugs (specifically pot). Perhaps this is because most of them were 60's or 70's hippies. Drugs are also much easier to conceal than an equivalent amount of alcohol.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I think the 1400 alcohol-related deaths/year claim must be one of those MADD scare statistics conjured up out of whole cloth.</p>

<p>Your friend who is having the New Year's Eve party is taking a great risk if any of the kids are underage or if there are illegal substances at the party. It has become increasingly difficult to have a party for highschool and college aged kids because of their noncompliance regarding alcohol and drugs. It is bad enough when you make a conscious effort to bar those items and keep them kids corralled in your home, but if you are taking a "see no evil" approach, there is a significant risk involved. There is a high likelihood that someone will abuse alcohol and/or drugs, and if that person does leave the premises and has a problem, the adult of that house/party can be held liable. If a someone complains of anything, and the police come by and any sign of underage drinking or the whiff of any drugs will be considered a crime. I have seen well meaning parents get slammed when either of those scenarios have occurred.</p>

<p>After hosting a few events after which I found some drugs, and alcohol signs, I have reduced the size of any gatherings for my teens and college kids. They just cannot be trusted, and the liability is too great. I am stumped as to how to patrol the party without becoming the Gestapo. I know of a number of other parents who have taken this risk and feel comfortable doing so, but what happens is that there is drugs and alcohol at those gatherings, and they just have to hope that it is kept discrete and that no one causes any problems. Usually they do not, but the risk is there even with good kids. </p>

<p>I have no answers as to what colleges can do, since I don't even see how parents can control this scene if there are a large number of kids at certain ages on the premises. Punitive measures seem to just result in more kids getting into trouble and getting kicked out. The problem is just so wide spread that it is hard to get any grasp on it. Essentially, the more and larger gatherings of college aged kids you have, the more substance abuse you have at the event. That is why sports and frats in a school incur more abuses. They have the crowds at their events and parties. In a city, the events tend to be more dispersed, but I doubt the number of drinking episodes is less. I know that at schools like BU and NYU, there is plenty of drinking and drugs, but much of it occurs in many locations in Boston and NY which dilutes the impact. When you get a school in an outlying location, there are limited venues, and that is where the abuse/partying is occurring.
The advantage of centralizing the problem is that you can at least contain it. It is frightening to me to even think about drunk college students stumbling around a major city, and too many of them do meet there demise that way whereas there is a safety element when the partying is done on campus without cars and when the people involved all tend to be insiders. </p>

<p>It is a problem and a dilemma for parents. What is preferable--a private home or (campus party) where you know there will be drugs/alcohol, or some outside venue where the consequences are less predictable? If you have a kid who does not drink, the peer pressure of those private events makes it highly likely for the kid to get involved. So hard to say no, when it is freely flowing and being offered by all you know, and it is an integral part of the party. A small group at a public place, if they did not bring their stash, and had no intent of drinking/using drugs, is less likely to suddenly decide to imbibe. But should they do so, they are in hostile territory if things do get out of hand. </p>

<p>I don't doubt the 1400 number for alcohol RELATED deaths. Just mentally tallying up the deaths around here that I saw reported in the papers would make it plausible. But most of the cases are traffic type incidents with drinking involved. The safety component of college events is that there is less driving involved a those things. Kids stumble their way on foot back to their beds for the most part. THe thing that scares me is that a number of those kids who are hospitalized these have taken enough alcohol to be gravely ill and some have even died. Not in the thousands as far as death goes, but each year some college kid dies of alcohol poisoning, often on that trek back home. As I said earlier, I never heard of such a thing when I was in college,and now it has become a common story. Kids are increasing their consumption to the point where the amount consumed is becoming an issue, not just the behaviour from impairment from the drugs. Those I know from my day, passed out in their rooms, not on campus or at the event, and I don't know anyone hospitalized, and at a small school like mine, I would have heard. Now in hospitals around college towns, it is a regular rounding up of those kids so severely impaired that they need medical attention. I'm not so sure about Mini's city vs isolated campus theory, because I know that the paddy wagons are full in college campus hot spots such as Oakland in Pittsburgh where one of my kids attended, and those kids loaded in there are those drinking or abusing drugs to a point that they have attracted police attention. And Pittsburgh is not a major city so the cluster points can be easily identified where the students hang around and get soused.</p>

<p>I would support the parents who are willing to host a New Year's Eve party for college age kids. The NO DRIVNG rule needs to be enforced. of course. I would much rather have my kids at someone's home than in a deserted barn or somewhere else. There is absolutely no question that these kids WILL be drinking, and while it is a risk for the hosting adults, I applaud this step. I realize this is the minority opinion here, but I believe in facing the facts and minimizing the risk to the kids.</p>

<p>From what I can tell the vast majority of colleges do little to control alcohol/drug use. Almost all of them have strict policies written by the attorneys which are not enforced. Don't ask - don't tell seems to be the rule of the day and only public and blatant violations result in any disciplinary action. Local communities often share the same philosophy. In small college towns most of the income comes from the students, often in the form of alcohol purchases. There is a lot of financial incentive to look the other way.</p>

<p>"Binge" drinking is not new. When I was in college if someone told me 4-5 drinks was considered binge drinking, I would have been amused. I would have thought that binge drinking was more like a case of beer or a fifth of 151 rum. I don't remember losing any friends to acute alcohol poisoning, but a couple did not make it through drug overdoses. I doubt that many of today's college kids die from acute alcohol poisoning. Deaths are due to alcohol-related accidents. In my college days, drunk driving was not considered a big deal - no worse than getting caught driving 20 mph over the speed limit.</p>

<p>"I have no answers as to what colleges can do."</p>

<p>Well, I do -- and the colleges do -- and there's a ton of research to back it up. But the political will isn't there.</p>

<p>I think the interesting figure would be number of college students admitted to the ER for alcohol poisoning not just kids who don't make it.</p>

<p>Edad my experience in college sounds so similar. Binge drinking consisted of 14 drinks, not 4 and drunk driving was what everyone did. Stupid but very common. I lost two high school classmates to drunk driving at other colleges but no one ever went to the hospital for alcohol poisoning that I ever heard of. Date rape was becoming an issue (alcohol fueled) but it didn't have a name as such yet. I did hear from a friend this a.m. about a student recently being expelled from Elon from public alcohol consumption. Rarely done, I'm sure.</p>

<p>I would rather have my college age D drinking at a house with parents home than at party at some friends appartment. When I was in HS my parents always planned a ski vacation over New Years, so it wasn't an issue. DS turned 21 last New Years Eve. I was a nervous wreck that night.</p>

<p>So is what we are saying here is don't go to college and you won't become alcoholic? Maybe if we looked at the age grouping 18-21 and compare alcohol and drug related deaths in the general public we might, just might find it's worse outside of college. This thread in one way seems to imply college is an alcohol death trap and colleges aren't doing enough. What are we comparing that stat to? I would venture to guess that in that age group exclusive of college students the numbers are either similar or possibly greater. </p>

<p>And Yes, abuse of any substance is bad, no arguement. I do think kids are a little more aware of drunk driving these days than we were 30 years ago and moreso compared to 40-50 years back. There has been a good education effort on HS and colleges to educate about the risks. </p>

<p>In no offense to mini as I understand this is her work and I find her posts to be enjoyable on many levels, sometimes on this issue it comes off as a "gasp" situation, when maybe it's going in the right direction and continued education has things on the right track. Maybe through efforts of people like mini some kids are becoming aware and making better choices. </p>

<p>However, not to sound pro alcoholism because I take a contary position I would like to see other groups to compare against. I know alcoholism and understand how it occurs. I just don't think it occurs any more or less with college students to other groups. I remember visiting dad in prison back in the 70's for too many drunk driving accidents and at least half the people there were blue collar tradesmen who also were there with alcohol related convictions. Back then it seemed as if around half the people involved in the trades had alcohol problems. When they got out, they went back to work and they were fine till next payday. </p>

<p>While it IS important to help anybody anywhere avoid situations where they have potential for addictive behavor, I don't feel some suggestions will eliminate the problem. I think they'll drive it underground.</p>