Frightening Stats -- Drinking Deaths & College Students

Parents Forum
41

<p>You don't have to "guess" on most any of the issues you raise. There is such a thing as good data.</p>

<p>My kid chose a college that has well less than half the binge drinking rate of what had been her first-choice college (my alma mater). She spent a Thursday night overnite at the latter, and that was enough for her. And then I get e-mails all the time from parents (some on this list) who sent their kids there, knowing full well what the data said, and the kids are miserable. (Likely, I only hear from those.)</p>

<p>But what's so surprising? If you send your kid to my alma or to Duke (where my stepnephew is) or to PSU or UColorado, chances are better than 50/50 that YOUR kid has binged in the past two weeks. The chances are better than one in four that they've had at least two drinks nearly every day in the past two weeks. And the chances are roughly one in six or seven that s/he will be an alcoholic at some time in the next 20 years (if not so already.) The odds rise if your kid is white and/or male. If your kid isn't one of those, and isn't a total abstainer, it is going to be somewhat difficult to find moderate drinkers as friends. Doable, happens all the time, but it is going to be more difficult.</p>

<p>Now your kid could turn out exactly the same if s/he went elsewhere. But we have data on that question, lots of it, and can well calculate the odds.</p>

42

<p>If you are concerned about where you are sending your kid google drinking rate and the name of the college. This is what came up for MIT: <a href="http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2005/alcohol-0302.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2005/alcohol-0302.html&lt;/a>
and <a href="http://www.higheredcenter.org/casestudies/mit.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.higheredcenter.org/casestudies/mit.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I suspect similar information is available for most schools. I'm feeling encouraged that MIT has a fairly low binge drinking rate and that they are making a real effort to make it even lower.</p>

43

<p>Without going into details about the particular schools involved, what Mini says in his post #41 is true from my children's experiences and the experiences of some of my friends' kids. There is a big difference in how much the social life centers around alcohol at various colleges, and this can make a big difference in the overall experiences of the students attending the schools.</p>

44

<p>Peer pressure is a powerful force. Sitting alone in the dorms on Friday night because almost everyone else is out drinking is no fun. Using a puked up restroom on Saturday morning is also sort of a downer. </p>

<p>All of those things happened in colleges years ago and continue today. I do think more kids and their parents are interested in avoiding that type of college culture. With enough pressure colleges might start to control the on campus activities. For now, it can be difficult to select colleges where heavy drinking is not common.</p>

45

<p>I do think the fact the drinking age is 21 only encourages binge drinking and "pre gaming." </p>

<p>I have one son recently graduated Columbia College, with a girlfriend at Barnard. Another daughter is at Bryn Mawr now. My son has freaked me out recently with tales of drunkeness in the dorms, and non stop pot (and other) drugs. He himself (according to him) is a moderate drinker now - why? Because one time he was visiting a friend at U Rochester and woke up after he vomited in his sleep. Thank God he woke up - as we all know he could easily have choked and died. And this is a bright kid who was never into drugs/drink in high school, and doesnt drink and drive.</p>

<p>His girlfriend, a Barnard senior has also told me about a drink called "everclear" which it seems someone actually slipped to her at a party. She was sick as a dog. This is a nice kid too...parents tell your kids especially your girls to WATCH THEIR DRINKS at parties and stuff. The whole scene is frightening. </p>

<p>I am hoping my daughter at Bryn Mawr is better off...but who knows. I am sure those girls can get into plenty of trouble. I will say it seems so far she is spending alot of time studying, more so than my son at the prestige Ivy (who graduates Magna Cum Laude...as long as he took the tests, his profs didnt care if he showed up or not). Sometimes he did, sometimes he didnt; he developed the theory that "I learn the most from reading the book."</p>

<p>The LAC seems more on top of attendance and student interaction. Columbia was fine in many ways, but the party scene and incredibly easy availability of IDs was amazing. My son was never carded once by the local bars. He told me they didnt care and were concerned about their business. Scary stuff.</p>

46

<p>LIMomof3 - My son graduated from a top university and my daughter is at a top LAC, and I agree with you about class attendance. For many courses at the university, it didn't matter if the students showed up, as long as the assignments were turned in and the tests were taken. At an LAC, absence from class is noticed and students do not tend to skip class routinely.</p>

47

<p>Also agree about the larger Us and class attendance. All 3 of mine were at smaller schools 5000 and under. At each school, in many classes attendance was taken and class participation was part of the grade. However, many of their friends at larger schools can party any night of the week as it doesn't matter if they are in class or not (unless test day)--many profs at these schools post their lecture notes online which further encourages nonattendance.</p>

48

<p>In my son's case, it wasn't so much a matter of partying as a matter of some of the insane computer science classes he was taking where they stayed up for days straight doing the programming work, not bothering to attend the lectures for their other courses. Some of his classes were actually available as videos online (because they were also offered to distance learners) and he watched a whole series of the lectures that he missed before the final exam.</p>

49

<p>I have in a my possession a new (June 2006) study from the European Union from its 25 member states on alcohol use, and should once and for all put to rest the notion that the "European model" (low drinking age, high tolerance for youth drinking, drinking with dinner, etc.) leads to less binge drinking among youth. (I've already addressed the reality that the European model results in higher rates of alcoholism, cirrhosis of the liver, liver cancer, and alcohol-related deaths among adults.)</p>

<p>Among EU members, the average age of first drink was 12.5, and first drunkenness 14. In Denmark, 70% of 15 year olds were drunk at least twice in the year before data collection (in the U.S., it was 34% of 10th graders drunk at least once.)</p>

<p>Anyhow, here is a list of countries with their percentage of teens ages 15-16 that engaged in binge drinking (5+ drinkers) at least once in the past 30 days:</p>

<p>Turkey - 15%
U.S. - 22%
Poland - 23%
Portugal - 25%
France - 28%
Sweden - 37%
Russia - 38%
Greece - 29%
Finland - 40%
Switzerland - 41%
Norway - 47%
United Kingdom - 54%
Germany - 57%
Ireland - 57%
Denmark - 60%</p>

<p>The only reason I can imagine that folks might perceive the U.S. as being high on this scale is that WHITE kids drink and binge more; Asian-American, African-American, and Hispanic kids less. So if one associates mostly with white kids, rates will be somewhat higher, but not really close to many of the European levels. (Similarly, France would be significantly higher if one took out those of North African ancestry - drinking has been declining per capita in France, but that is mostly a function of population demographic changes.)</p>

<p>Meanwhile, since new drinking age laws were enacted back around 1981, binge drinking in the previous 30 days among U.S. 12th graders has declined from 41% in 1981, to 30% in 2005, a more than 25% drop. Clearly, here's a case of a law that has worked!</p>

50

<p>so Mini do you think binge drinking has declined amongst college youth? and if not, why only for 12th graders?</p>

51

<p>I not only think is has declined among college STUDENTS, I know it has. But much of that is an artifact of the age of the average college student, which is 24.5, and the transformation of American colleges, with much heavier emphasis on on-line learning, night and weekend colleges, part-time college attendance, students carrying full-time jobs while going to school, etc. And the much larger proportion of college students who are Asian, Hispanic, and African-American. So the data going back to 1981 isn't comparable.</p>

<p>Over the past 5 years, there has been some (small) decline on college campuses generally speaking. On some campuses (UOklahoma being prime) there have been substantial declines as a result of new policies. </p>

<p>Where I don't think you'll find declines is among prestige private colleges and universities, and most (but not all) of the flagships. These are the institutions most likely to have the characteristics associated with heavy drinking.</p>

52

<p>Wisconsin U has what would qualify as a heavy drinking culture and always has yet the number of deaths is 1 or 0 ( I thought there was one but can't confirm it) over the last 35 years. It has always been mostly white so no impact there. Skill or luck? What about Williams?</p>

53

<p>No deaths yet (or at least in the last decade or two), though they've come awfully close, and on two occasions relatively recently with prospective students with blood alcohol in the 0.40-0.45 range. (I'm sure they got sued, of course, and settled out of court, as they always do.) They had to close down the overnight infirmary because no physician was willing to take on the liability of staffing it because of all the alcohol poisonings, and now the ambulance has to come over snowy, wintry roads from North Adams State Hospital six miles away. (They lose students in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes intermittently, and on roads around there, that isn't surprising.)</p>

<p>Everyone knows it is only a matter of time.</p>

54

<p>I had some very tasty little hot dogs at a small dive place in North Adams--ever been there?</p>

55

<p>I also think it would be very helpful to see the rates of alcohol comsumption for college-aged people who are NOT in school, but working full-time. I suspect that there is just as much drinking going on and possibly more as these people will, in general, be less educated and not needing to study at night. College itself may not really be the problem, of course.</p>

<p>Second point; I would also rather have my kids drinking at my house and not driving rather than at someone else's house and driving home, but "sponsoring" a party with alcohol and minors is a recipe for disaster on several levels. It certainly sends the message that one should obey the law unless certain circumstances exist. The 18 year old will devise "certain cicumstances" differently than the parent, but in home parties seem to OK the concept. Secondly it does open a can of worms with respect to liability and certainly we can think of many ways that drunk teenagers could get hurt in someone else's house.</p>

<p>Also espousing the opinion that one shouldn,t drink until "legal" won't prevent students from drinking (Good grief-I was at Big State U in the 70's), but it will decrease the number of times that teens are drunk and thus decrease proportionally the chance of accidents.</p>

<p>One more thought; hang around in public hospital Emergency Rooms on Friday and Sat. nights. There are at least 5-10 people admitted to the ER (not necessarily hospitalized) with acute alcohol poisoning EVERY weekend night. It is common if you look in the right places</p>

56

<p>"I also think it would be very helpful to see the rates of alcohol comsumption for college-aged people who are NOT in school, but working full-time. I suspect that there is just as much drinking going on and possibly more as these people will, in general, be less educated and not needing to study at night. College itself may not really be the problem, of course."</p>

<p>We have the data for out-of-school 18-20 year olds. It is lower than for full-time college students. (Up to age 21, drinking is associated with higher incomes; the same is not true for drug abuse.)</p>

57

<p>
[quote]
It is lower than for full-time college students.

[/quote]

Mini, why do you think this is the case? My son commented to me that in high school it was easier for kids to "score" drugs than to buy beer. Could the college campuses provide a ready network for the underage procurement of alcohol?</p>

58

<p>Really, your guess is as good as mine. I think 40-hour a week jobs are probably, on the whole, more difficult to carry along with heavy drinking than most college experiences. I think it also more likely that folks out of school and working at 18 are less likely to be able to afford hard alcohol, and if they do, more of it will be only for the weekend. Full-time 18-20 year old college students are the exception rather than the rule. And finally - the network of 18-21 year olds is like the blind leading the blind.</p>

59

<p>I had no idea that full-time 18-20 year olds were the exception. I guess I assumed that most were in school full time and the exceptions were the adult evening class students.</p>

60

<p>The data for not-in-school 18-20 yr olds is interesting. Is this binge drinking, any drinking, alcoholism, all of the above or is it broken down. The question I am after is does the "college experience" foster more binge drinking as well as drinking in general? binge drinking would seem to cause more acute deaths and chronic drinking kills people slower (cirrhosis, etc) and if so binge drinking in excess of other populations may explain the higher death rate of these young people</p>