From a Rural Area, Child accepted to Ivy & top LAC , how to choose without visiting

College Search & Selection
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I did think about the Columbia and how it could be expensive if people went out to eat and on weekends. My daughter is very thrifty, even when she has money. She just does not like spending money on food. She has never drank coffee. A good example she was going to an academic event a few weeks ago and the instruction sheet said give your child $20 for food. My daughter ate two cups of ice and spent the money on books.
I do not know what peer pressure would be like? Right now where we live if she goes out with classmates, it is hard to find a place that is not owned by someone at her school or has kids from her school working at it so food is usually discounted or free.

There was only one time I can think of that she was in a sitiation where she was with some very wealthy kids and they were shopping. She decided to go to a dance in a group and the girls wanted to go to the most expensive store to buy dresses. She thinks back on that day as an experince but something she would not want to do again. She honestly would have rather gone to the consignment store which has a much larger selection of dresses then the expensive store she went to with limited options. She thinks back on it maybe in a way, like lessons that taught her what she does not like.

I think this is why Wellesley’s location was ideal. The campus was beautiful in a safe suburb but maybe on a weekend that she had less work she could go to the city easily to go to a museum or play. I do not think living in the middle of the city is the dream as much as the city being close enough to go once in awhile. When people say Amherst is rural, it is not to us. My husband drives about 250 miles to take our kids to the movies , ice skating, roller skating and museums. My daughter would be happy with just new things to do without a day in the car.

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It sounds as if your daughter might be very unhappy in NYC. I would not want to expose her to that kind of culture shock. As I mentioned on another thread, I think that in order to be happy at Columbia, you have to want to be in NYC, because the energy of the city will be such a big part of the experience.

A lot of great things in NYC are free or low cost, and many more things are insanely expensive, and it’s all there in front of you.
I first experienced NYC as an intern, making the first serious money in my life - it was nothing compared to what you’d make as a professional, of course, but it made for a very nice budget compared to what I might have been able to spend as a middle class undergrad. I remember thinking I wouldn’t have wanted to be in NYC on a student budget and would never want to raise a family there and think now I wouldn’t want to send my pretty frugal middle class kids there for undergrad. And they’ll have grown up in European city, way less sheltered than your kid sounds.

I know the thread has kind of devolved into “Columbia vs Amherst” as your daughter likes the idea of a “name school”, but, not having seen it or knowing anything about neuroscience there, for best fit and happiness, I’d take a good long look at Vassar.

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My niece graduated from Wellesley recently. She’s from a rural area that has a small downtown and only one HS in the town. She enjoyed her time there, but it was a big change from what she was accustomed to.

For instance, though she grew up middle class (real small town middle class, not CC middle class :wink: ) most of the students she knew at Wellesley were definitely at least a couple of rungs higher on the SES ladder. They were accustomed to multiple long-distance vacations a year, and maintained that schedule while at college. She got along great with the students, and was able to go on a couple of trips with them because she could stay at their parents’ vacation homes instead of paying for a hotel room. That meant she (well, her mother) only had to pay for plane tickets, but even then, she couldn’t afford to take as many trips as her classmates offered. And I think she missed almost every trip that involved hotel expenses - only making the trips that included stays at the other students’ parents’ vacation homes.

The wealth gap was eye-opening because like your daughter, she was not used to spending a lot of money for anything. For her, fast food was what “eating out” meant, but she found that many of her W-classmates took casual meals at eateries she considered much too expensive. But it was not debilitating to her college experience in any way. All in all, it was a wonderful experience for her. She loved her time at Wellesley, embraced the academics, and really enjoyed the camaraderie of the students.

EDIT:
BTW @RuralCityMom , I think your daughter is probably going to notice that spending gap at practically any private university she attends. My son attends a private university and he’s astonished at how often his friends eat out at non-fast-food places. He calls me and laughs and says that even when he has plenty of money, he skips those meals because he can’t imagine spending $20-$30 just to eat one meal. He cracks me up when he says, “and they do it all the time!”

It doesn’t bother him one bit, but he was accustomed to such differences in SES because of his friend group in HS - it included the wealthy, average, and low-income, so he learned how to navigate the various groups. I suspect your daughter will be less bothered by such instances when she’s around it more often.

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Regarding your daughter’s waiting list position at Harvard, in this Boston Globe article, a prominent respondent to the Proust Questionnaire said choosing Harvard over Hamilton has been his “greatest regret”:

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My oldest of 4 went to Wellesley and I can not say a single bad thing about it (except that my youngest did not get accepted this year!) It is academically challenging, supportive, safe, small, empowering, quaint. There are a lot of opportunities and the connections and network are invaluable. My daughter had fun, but not in a “party” way, there was just always something interesting to do. She made the friendships of her life there. She just got married in late 2019 and I was so surprised how many classmates flew in to attend. We are from Massachusetts and I can tell you the town is wealthy and there are things in walking distance- shops and restaurants, etc. The campus is pretty insulated and really beautiful. My youngest probably is a better fit at a conservatory type of school with more hands on performing opportunities (she wants to study theatre//musical theater) but both of us felt a little sad that she won’t be at Wellesley. It really is incredibly special.

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Also wanted to add that we are not a wealthy family by any far stretch. My D got excellent financial aid there, which is why she could attend. The $ gap between students was not a huge issue for her as there are many, many students in the same boat. They are need blind/need full, so it takes away the feeling of only rich kids being there. It’s a nice mix of people . They will find their friends and it will work out.

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Congrats to your D for having so many fine acceptances and options! Like others have already mentioned, these schools differ in many ways. Your D may want to make a comparison spreadsheet of basic facts about each school, the curriculum overall and the departments/fields she is currently interested in, and list pros and cons. Some things from that exercise may pop out to her. These schools differ in so many ways, from single sex to coed, from city to suburban to rural, size, core curriculum to open curriculum, etc. just for starters.

I just want to comment that on the one hand, you say your child grew up in a rural area, but then you say you live in a landlocked city. That’s not quite the same thing.

My two daughters truly grew up in a rural area on a dirt road in the mountains in a town of 1700 in rural Vermont. There wasn’t even a traffic light in our town. Nothing was walkable. They loved growing up there but for college, wanted to experience a different environment. My older D went to Brown, which has a campus but is in a smallish city. She loved it immensely. The open curriculum is a great concept. She eventually went to graduate school at MIT and at Berkeley, both in cities and now has chosen to settle in Manhattan. My other D attended NYU Tisch School of the Arts, smack dab in NYC, a huge contrast to where she grew up. Her dorm’s population was nearly the size of our entire town. She loved it so much. No trouble adjusting. She started college at 16 even. Since graduating 12 years ago, she has never left NYC as her place of residence. I don’t agree with the posters who discourage Columbia because of it being too much of shock for a kid from a rural area (and i think your kid is from a “city” already, unlike my kids). There will be kids attending from all over the country and the world and from various levels of socio-economic classes.

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After following this thread all the way through, I’m putting in a plug for Vassar-the underdog in this pack!

Your descriptions of your daughter over the course of this thread sound like both Collegekid2 and some of her pals, for whom Vassar was just the right fit. It’s not going to tick the ‘name brand’ box at home the way Columbia will, and it is a ‘fit’ school, so I rarely advocate for it. Still, I am going to suggest that you/your daughter go back and look at the dark horse to see if it ‘clicks’.

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I think the first question to consider is how important the neuroscience major is. By it’s nature, it is interdisciplinary. I’ve looked at this major in many different colleges. Some provide mechanisms for the learning from different disciplines to be integrated. To the other extreme, I wonder if profs from the different departments are even talking to each other.

From their catalogue descriptions, Columbia and Vassar seem to me to be less integrated than your other 4 choices. I might be wrong about this, so check for yourselves. It’s something to look at. Even if I’m right, the catalogue description might not accurately reflect how it really works.

Here’s one of the things that Amherst says about its neuroscience major:

“. . . Neuroscience is one of the more academically demanding majors at Amherst College. Neuroscience has a large number of required courses, and among the largest number of required laboratory courses. We print this not to discover anyone from majoring, but so that students have a realistic view . . .”

If you’re looking for rigor, it would seem that Amherst is the way to go. On the other hand, if this looks like it could present unwanted problems, then Amherst would seem to be a place to avoid.

Like Amherst, your other 3 choices all seem to provide integration of the various disciplines which contribute to neuroscience. You already seem to be shying away from Wellesley, so that would leave a choice between Hamilton and Smith. Choose co-ed vs women’s college.

Hamilton strikes me as the best match for your daughter’s academic interests, based on what they state in their catalogue. She is interested in either med school or medical research. Since her interests include the latter, I note that Hamilton’s description of its program heavily emphasizes student research. I should also note that the recommended path for medical research these days is an MD/PhD, which obviously means med school either way.

Since she is interested in a foreign language, that probably means at least a semester abroad. She can do both even at Amherst, but it means careful planning of her course schedule and sequences right from the beginning of freshman year. Amherst, for example, has a sample course sequence for a neuroscience major who plans to study abroad.

From your comments, I get the impression that you too have looked closely at the program descriptions at these different colleges. If I’ve misrepresented anything, my apologies. These are all obviously wonderful schools, so any of them can meet her needs. If other factors like location, your choice might be different. Just sharing my take on the different academic options. Best of luck.

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Blossom, why would Hamilton give you pause for social reasons?

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I’d just like to add another thing to put in the back of your mind when making the decision. Even though your child plans to major in Neuroscience and possibly go to Med School or MD/PhD there is a very good chance she changes her mind and decides to major in something else. She’s very bright and can probably excel in anything that she puts her mind to. She might take a real Comp Sci class and suddenly realize she has a talent and love of that or a Math class or maybe she falls in love with a language she decides to study. My D17 was Neuro major with possible designs for a MD/PhD but she’ll be attending grad school as a Computational Astrophysicist so be prepared.

In addition I’m of the opinion that Neuro at the UG level is sort of a pseudo major. You’re really just getting that Biochem foundation so that you can specialize in Neuro at the Grad level whether it be PhD or MD/PhD.

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The kids I know who are there and who have graduated describe a heavy drinking culture, not as many recreational options as at a more urban school, fewer volunteer/political engagement opportunities. Great arts scene, but I think you can get that at the D’s other options with a more robust social life


On the one hand, fewer opportunities to spend money so the economic divide isn’t as apparent. On the other hand- just less to do if you don’t want to go to a party and are not a sporty type.

Please contradict me if my impression is wrong


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Just as it is possible a 17 year old will change a major or decide to study abroad after getting to college, it is also possible (even likely) the 18 or 19 year old college student will decide she really likes drinking coffee, drinking wine or beer, wants to go to social parties every Friday night.

I wouldn’t shy away from a school because it has a Greek row or a sports team is doing well. College is a time to explore new things, good and bad.

All the schools listed will have plenty of opportunities to go to museums (on campus or nearby), experience music, participate in a tug-o-war.

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Yes. I think a better fit would be a more insular campus where students spend most weekends there, with an occasional trip to a big city. Some schools provide opportunities for prospective students to talk with current ones, which may help her get a better idea of campus vibe.

I also think it would be a good idea for her to join group chats for her accepted schools and see what feels most friendly and comfortable.

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No contradiction here. I was just looking for clarification. The specifics are appreciated. I understand your concerns about Hamilton. Seems like it’s always something.

I live near Wesleyan and can tell you that drugs on campus can be a problem there, but then drugs & alcohol are everywhere. In another realm, some posters have already expressed the issues that can be a problem at women’s colleges.

Here’s an interesting article about different sorts of problems on campuses with a gender disparity:

The article analyzes data which shows that paradoxically women are treated better and are safer on campuses which have more males than females and less so on campuses which are more predominantly female. Vassar, whose location fits a lot of what this family is looking for, has 40+% more females than males.

With regard to another issue, NYC most definitely can present safety problems for out-of-towners who don’t know their way around. A young woman who finds herself in the wrong place at the wrong time can certainly be at risk. I grew up in the city and lived there for 25 years. I still have family & friends there, and visit often. I know many who went to college there.

I appreciate you bringing up the concerns about Hamilton because every place has its own challenges for young people. Families should go into these choices with their eyes open.

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Amherst or Hamilton, but great choices all.

My D, who sounds very similar to your D, went to a NE LAC and pretty much had the experience that your D is looking for. We also live in a “landlocked” city where most of the kids go to one of the state U’s. That she comes from a “red” state has never been held against her, although she was already liberal to begin with. She also prefers to have a small group of really close friends, which she found at her LAC. She did play a varsity sport, so one set of friends were teammates, but she also has a number of close friends from her major. She is currently living in Boston with 2 teammates and her BF. She developed a very close relationship with 2 of her professors in her major who took her under their wings. She did paid research for one or the other every summer starting from summer of freshmen year. Her school also had an “open” type curriculum, which she found very liberating in terms of exploring topics outside of her STEM major.

I’d have your daughter reach out to the admissions office of her top few schools to try to get some time on the phone/Zoom with a current student with similar interests. This may give her some subjective insights.

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Amherst isn’t rural in the sense of being isolated. The land around it is rural. But with UMass there and the other colleges nearby, there is a lot going on, and the city of Northhampton is very close by and also has a lot going on.

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@ruralcitymom I’m surprised that Vassar hasn’t been recommended more on this thread. It sounds like it might be the sweet spot for your daughter. We toured some years back and the financials ended up not working otherwise my quiet, non partying, studious and kind child would have applied. Our impression was one of collaborative kindness. The campus is stunning with one of the most beautiful libraries I have ever seen. It seemed reasonably diverse as highly selective LACs go. The town of Poughkeepsie is not particularly distinctive although it’s on the river and there are outdoor recreation opportunities relatively close at hand. Good restaurants too, due to the Culinary Institute being located there. And it’s reasonably easy to get into Manhattan if your child wants access to the city but is not sure if she wants to live there. I agree with one of the posters upthread - Columbia is a compact oasis in the city, with the exception of urban noise which is hard to filter out.

Amherst seems preppy/sporty as predominant vibe.

Smith is politically radical although I think that a young woman that is more moderate could be happy there, assuming she wants a women’s college. Stereotypes about political leaning are often more muted in STEM majors because the subject matter is not inherently political in the way that gender studies or history might be.

Wellesley is said to have a fairly intense preprofessional vibe.

I don’t know Hamilton.

BTW, I don’t think that anybody would judge/make assumptions about your child based on the state that she is from. At least I hope not!

Good luck with your decision. As I have counseled my own child, fit is more important than prestige although in your child’s case she does not have to choose because all are highly prestigious schools.

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Amherst College Diversity & Student Demographics (collegesimply.com)

Diversity, Equity & Inclusion | The Amherst Story | Amherst College

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I did not express caution about NYC so much because of the OPs kid having grown up in a rural (or landlocked, whatever that is supposed to mean) area, but because of how she described her daughter‘s character and habits. Not a kid who is chomping at the bit for the big lights, big city, I don’t think.

If she actually wanted that, who’s to stop her? I just think that if she didn’t, would choose Columbia solely for the Ivy name, it might be overwhelming.

From the way OP describes her hopes for a BFF roommate, I think a close knit campus community should be the number one consideration. Roomie might still be a toad, but she might find a good friend group more easily if most of the stuff there is to do is on campus, as opposed to having to navigate right away what kids do in NYC for their social lives. The city would be there, not too far away, to enjoy for a Saturday or weekend. Lots of sophistication around right on campus for her to grow into at Vassar, I’d think.

The caution I’d always express about Wellesley is that the community sounded to me to like it fell apart a bit on weekends when I visited. People spending time away in Cambridge or Boston, visiting boyfriends or kids at other colleges. Something that might be inquired about of a current student.

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