<p>If you really like them, please give them the bad news now: a perfect SAT might not even avoid the ultimate rejection. Your friends might be spared an outright rejection by being placed on a waiting list, but the chances of being admitted to Amherst are slim to none. </p>
<p>Fwiw, full pay is a quite different from a development admit. A school such Amherst LOSES money on each student, including full paying families. </p>
<p>Well, the family will have the money to fund a productive gap year if the worst case scenario comes about. I guess I would just reiterate that the list should have one REAL safety school, just in case the college admissions landscape changes drastically from what the dad believes is the situation now.</p>
Good advice. thanks!
The reason the parents are so focused on the group of schools is that they both attended such schools for undergrad and graduate school. I don’t think it ever crossed their minds that the same wouldn’t happen for their son. The difference (beside decades) is that the parents both had incredibly compelling stories and strong work ethic. It’s those work ethics that allowed them to become wealthy and their son to never want for anything. I don’t think he shares their expectations, which is a shame. He’d love to be at a larger school with a marching band.</p>
<p>And that is why it is important to develop a list from the bottom up. It’s acceptable to reach for the stars and hope for the best, but not without a safety net. All in all, perhaps this student should go to a larger school with a marching band. </p>
<p>Since he did well on his tests, he might discover that the learning process in college fits him better. There are multiple reasons why someone is underperforming in high school. He could do well in college, and end up at a graduate school that meets his parents expectations. </p>
<p>Lastly, there is always the option of a later transfer. A combination of a high SAT and good grades in college might yield good results.</p>
<p>Excellent advice xiggi. College could be a whole new beginning for this lovely young man. I secretly think that they didn’t make a great high school choice for him. Being in NYC, he had to go through the application/testing process and his parents had very specific goals in mind which, I don’t think, matched his. I wonder if that has been part of the reason why he hasn’t excelled. He’s in a small, public high school because they believe that wealthy students should remain in the public schools, which is a noble goal, but they wanted that smaller, boutique feel because they were concerned about him getting swallowed up. the problem was that he had played an instrument for years and wanted to be in an ensemble in high school. The chosen school doesn’t have anything like that and so he stopped playing after freshman year. Hmmmm.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that this is pretty early in the process for a high school junior. My older kid hasn’t even taken the SAT’s yet at this point in his junior year - he didn’t even start drawing up a college list until the following September. We were stunned a few weeks later when he got his March SAT results – a score that is quite mundane by CC standards, but seemed astronomically high to our eyes. And then, of course, the college marketing brochures started to arrive – it seemed like every college in the country was trying to “recruit” my little whiz kid. </p>
<p>Since we needed financial aid, I got jaded pretty quickly. I created a file system to divide up the college mail by region (west coast, east coast, etc.) and there was a special folder called “colleges offering money” that was very skinny compared to the rest. (Son was National Merit, so there were some firm offers that went into that folder… unfortunately none from any colleges that S. actually wanted to attend.</p>
<p>But the point is, in February of my son’s senior year, I wouldn’t have had a clue as to whether “Amherst” or “Vassar” or any Ivy League school was an option for my son. And my son wasn’t really paying all that much attention.</p>
<p>It’s very possible that your friend’s son’s high school g.c. will meet with later this year – probably after May 1st, when the current crop of seniors have all sent in their deposits – and provide a needed dose of reality. My d’s counselor had each student come in with a list of the colleges they were considering, and then he noted on the list where he thought the students stood in terms of admission likelihood. I’m sure if a student came in with an unrealistic list he would have offered some options to consider. </p>
<p>Meanwhile the gamer kid will also wake up at some point and start doing his own reading or internet browsing. You’ve been given the father’s dream list, not the kid’s list – for all we know, while the dad is thinking of a leafy East Coast LAC, son is dreaming of sun and surf on the Florida coast. </p>
<p>A 2100 SAT is nothing to scoff at – the kid may retake in the spring and do even better – and there are plenty of colleges all over the country that will be glad to make room for a full-pay, high scorer. Not the ones that the father has in mind… but if [marching</a> band](<a href=“http://■■■■■■/dJsopz]marching”>http://■■■■■■/dJsopz) is the criteria, then the kid should have plenty of options.</p>
You’re absolutely right, but my concern (I really like this kid and he is very good to my little guy) is that there will be no room in the process for HIS choices or opinions. That’s the precedent set with the high school process. They’re visiting schools this week (it’s winter break here) and not a one was chosen by the son. The parents are older parents who are so sure they know best (which they generally do) that they can sometimes steamroller over the kids because they’re as yet young and inexperienced.</p>
<p>Cal, it is so funny when you mention marching band. One branch of my family is all HS music teachers (in a state I will not name). In order to get a job as music teacher in that unnamed state, one must (apparently) be in marching band in college (I swear I am not making this up). So one of this family turned down an admit at UT-Austin, becuase while he was accepted, he tried out for the band (you do this in the admit process, I swear I am not making this up), and while he got into UT-Austin, he did not get into the band, so he went to LSU.</p>
<p>The motto of this, there is a right school for everyone.</p>
But there’s a difference between a 13 year old & a 17 year old, both in terms of the degree of choice parents allow, and in terms of the degree of input the kids push for.</p>
<p>These people are in for a rude shock. We are full pay, and our daughters both had better SATs, a LOT better grades (sal and val respectively), than this kid. And they had pretty good ECs with regional and state honors and awards too. And while both of them got into several selective schools, including Ivy, they were both also rejected from several Ivy schools too. </p>
<p>Full pay just isn’t that big of a boost at a highly-selective school. I think it MIGHT be something of slight boost when choosing among the hundreds or even thousands of highly-qualified applicants to fill in the last few spots in the class or pulling kids off the wait list. But there is no way that full play + good SATs can overcome the twin handicaps of Bs and Cs on the transcript and no ECs. Ain’t going to happen.</p>
<p>I’m concerned that this student isn’t getting to have much say in his college options. Marching band is a terrific experience…and great way to make friends, and usually a very good group of kids. We know a number of students who have played in college marching bands and in college pep bands. For some of them, band was the “glue” that held them together in college. </p>
<p>I agree with hiring a college counselor. This would be an independent paid person who will tell it like it is (hopefully). The private counselors here look at the kids, what they are bringing to the application process and then craft a realistic list that CAN include some reach schools (sounds like this will be an expectation of these parents…the reach schools). They are also painfully honest in terms of explaining what a student needs to do to improve their likelihood of acceptance.</p>
<p>Times have changed at the Ivies over the last two generations. We were at a family gathering where there were a number of Ivy grads (parent and grandparent ages) and they all agreed that if they were applying to the Ivies NOW, none of them would have been accepted.</p>
<p>kayf, I know what you mean - I was in marching band in high school. All of the HS music teachers in my district were in marching band in college because they had to be able to coach the HS marching bands, and many of my friends went to schools with big marching bands where they could play. Some even went on marching band scholarships!</p>
<p>I didn’t play in band in college but I had lots of friends who did, and like thumper says, it’s a fiercely close group. When I was in HS practically all of my friends were marchers (because honestly, we spent SO MUCH TIME together between practice, travel and games) and in college they spend a lot of time practicing, too.</p>
<p>If they’re full pay then maybe he should look at some large public schools that have marching bands or ensembles or some other activities that he likes, both OOS and in-state.</p>
<p>“At my last college reunion, there was much angst over how little it meant at admissions time to be a legacy with stats below the mean (but above the threshold.)”</p>
<p>Recent studies indicate it just ain’t true. Legacies (at top Ivies) have a HUGE advantage - at the same SAT/GPA levels, roughly 3X that of other applicants. Does that mean they all get in? No - the vast majority don’t (triple the 10% or so admit rate at Princeton, and it means that 70% of legacies are rejected.)</p>
<p>zm, we have a lot of friends in this category- wealthy families, full pay, but not developmental admits, with nice average kids. There are plenty of nice LACs that fit these kids very well. They are just not Swarthmore or Amherst or Vassar. I agree with calmom’s suggestion- a private college counselor would be perfect for this family. Since we are on this site, why not the folks at CC?</p>
<p>Yup-
Let someone else be the bearer of the eye-opening news about the realitiy of college admissions these days. And if the kiddo is looking for marching band, they are gonna be a little disappointed at Amherst, Vassar or Swat</p>