Full Ride at small school or walk-on at dream school?

Athletic Recruits
21

I think you need to dismiss the idea that the D1 school is beneath her academically. Most flagships give a pretty good education for those who put in the effort. One DD attends one that is ranked lower on the USNWR scale but we have found nothing but nice, dedicated students who are always being recognized for academic achievements as well as sports.

My other DD, who is the athlete, looked at a wide range of schools from smaller D1 to academically elite D3. She wanted a balance of athletic and academic fit. And she wanted to play, not just watch. She could have gone to a D1 school and the team was ranked in the top 20 in the sport this year. There are over 40 kids on the team, and most of the freshmen don’t play, or play 5 minutes of one game (I think her friend played less than 10 minutes total this year). Academically, the school is weak (IMO) and not right for my daughter. Other D1 schools that offered her a spot were much smaller, in small towns, and also not for DD. Many people thought she was nuts for not wanting to go to the more elite D3 schools, but DD doesn’t like the LAC model of schools. She found a D2 she likes. I’ll add she didn’t find this school until late July before her senior year. She didn’t tour the school until September, didn’t accept until Nov, and many schools were still contacting her. Your daughter still has lots of time for most schools.

Your daughter might want it to be ‘over’ but it is, of course, not really over until she’s accepted to the school and/or signs a NLI. She doesn’t want to go to the small school her brother attends, so let that scholarship go. There will be other offers. I’d have your daughter ask a lot of questions about how often the walk ons make the team, whether they are expected to follow all the same rules, if they can live and eat with the team, how many get scholarships in the following years. Will she be on the team, or just part of the practice squad, always trying to make the team? In football, there are 30 or more non-scholarship walk on students, but they don’t normally get to travel with the team or even dress on game day.

22

@twoinanddone - In almost all cases (excluding Ivy’s) a d1 verbal commitment is the end of the process. Admission is pretty much a done deal, and it is very rare for a deal to be withdrawn (barring a large change in circumstances) - especially for a walk-on who is getting no money.

As for timeline, this is really very near the end of the recruiting cycle for class of 2016 for many women’s sports (including volleyball) - some (eg soccer) are finishing up class of 2017 commitments. Delays at this point will most likely take all money off the table very soon. I would expect that you might get some movement around JR Nationals and a few weeks after, but, with Volleyball being a Fall sport, schools will be in preseason mode pretty soon and they will want to be done before the beginning of August - at the VERY latest.

23

@6chickadees - It’s a bit of a slimey move, but since you aren’t accepting a money offer, she can keep her options open by accepting the d1 offer. The d3 roster spot will likely still be open to her should that be her final decision. If she doesn’t need admission assistance to get into the d3 school, and since she presumably has “almost d1” skills, there are very few d3 schools that wouldn’t give her a roster spot if she emailed the coach next summer.

Something else to keep in mind. Volleyball is a head count sport for women. So, at best, the coach sees her as player number 13 on the roster. If she goes the d1 route, make sure D understands this. Have her think about how much player 13 played on her HS team, on her club team. Look at the box scores for the school over the last year (or the full season stats) and see how often they went that deep in a game.

For example, looking at Penn State - they played 127 sets last season, player 13 played in only 18 games. Of players outside the top 12, one player had 10 attacks, everyone else was fewer than 3 - for the entire season!

It is a tough road, it can be fun, but make 100% sure she understands how hard life as a d1 practice player is.

24

dreadpirit, I agree and disagree. The top D1 spots are gone, the scholarships given out, but OP’s daughter is not getting one of those anyway. My daughter wasn’t getting one either, so then she had to decide if she wanted to play at lower ranked D1 schools, a D2 school (both with money) or a D3 school. She found a great D2 that fit her well. In her sport, lacrosse, most of the D1 recruits ‘commit’ in their sophomore year for the top teams. Even for walk ons, the competition at those schools is fierce, and if you aren’t in the top 20, you don’t see much if any field time (like the 13th player in volleyball).

I still think there will be spots at lower D1 schools, D2 and D3. The OP’s daughter has to do the work and find them. And I do know a lot of kids, girls and boys, who give a verbal commitment and then change their minds. A coach would rather have you do that than go to the school and drop out after a semester or year. I know more than a handful who have done that too. No one wants the players to be unhappy, to accept a scholarship at a school he/she doesn’t really want to be at just to have a scholarship.

25

I think some misinformation is being conveyed here.

  1. Loads of verbal commitments never come to fruition these days. One of the reasons is that more and more high school sophomores and sometimes even freshmen are giving them. This creates a longer time gap between the "commitment" and matriculation, and greater opportunities for either side to have a change of heart or mind.
  2. Re: "it is very rare for a deal to be withdrawn (barring a large change in circumstances) - especially for a walk-on who is getting no money." Well, for these students there is no "deal" or verbal commitment, is there?
26

@fenwaypark -

  1. Very few verbals are being withdrawn by schools and coaches. The vast majority of the few verbals that don’t come to fruition are kids changing their minds.

  2. A verbal commitment for a walk-on spot certainly is a deal. It is a commitment from the coach for a roster spot and (depending on the deal) admission.

27

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Oral commitments (in the case of athletes) and offers (in the case of coaches) are worth the paper they are written on. Many times they are honored. Often they are not. The odds for oral commitments/offers not being honored–by either side-- seem to be proportional to the time until the date for LOI signing/admissions notification.

Can’t take anything to the bank until the LOI is signed, the letter from admissions is received in the case of Ivies/D3, or the roster is posted online in the case of walk-ons.

Youngsters who ignore this advice are doing so at their peril.

28

I suggest you “unpack” the full ride offer and ask some honest questions. You know your child’s personality, academic abilities, and likes/dislikes. Forget volleyball, and forget that her sibling attends this same college. Focus on the school, location, academics, size of student body, etc. Can you see your child attending and thriving there? Are there factors that she can grow to love (hoping that she gets over her initial hesitations) ?

I can’t imagine walking away from a full ride offer, but if you can look more intently and decide if this could be a good match for your child, then you could have more confidence in pushing her towards that school. If there is a nagging feeling in your gut that says this is not the right school for her, listen to your instinct and walk away.

It sounds like there could still be some other potential offers out there if you will continue your search. (I understand that she is ready to be “done”.) I encourage you to stay strong, ignore the pleas to let her take out huge loans. Paying so much to sit on the bench just seems wrong, plus you need to stay flexible with the other children coming up towards college in the coming years.

29

Dreadpoint, maybe the ‘walk on’ deal is a guarantee of admissions at some schools, but most don’t give the coaches that kind of power to guarantee admissions. There was a recruit for my daughter’s team listed for two years on the recruiting national list (her sister too, for the following year). She’s not coming and rumor is she wasn’t academically admitted. Our friend is ‘committed’ to Air Force, except he still has to get admitted and that is in no way a sure thing. He’s still being recruited and will look at other schools.

There were several high profile football recruits who had their spots pulled at the last minute last February. Scummy coaches, but it happens. Those kids had stopped looking when they had ‘committed’ and were left out.

OP’s daughter wants to go to a top academic school, a top v.b. program, and get the full D1 scholarship; I don’t think that’s going to happen. If she holds out for that, she may miss other really good opportunities. Her grades and scores are good, but not outstanding. If her v.b. was elite, she’d have had offers at the better programs by now. The smaller D1 school that is offering her the v.b. scholarship is probably the skill level she plays at, and she’ll get to play, not just watch.

My daughter was in a very similar spot. Good grades, mediocre scores, above average playing ability but she’s a smaller kid and grew late so was never a superstar in those years when the top recruiting was happening. She couldn’t have it all, she couldn’t go to Maryland or Northwestern and play on the first team and receive a hefty scholarship, so she prioritized the things that were most important and made it work. In order, academics, cost, team/coach/significant playing time, size of school, location, but USNWR ranking was never a consideration. She goes to a D2 school with about 1/3 of COA in athletic scholarship, more than 1/3 in merit from the school, and the rest in other grants and scholarships. There are several ways to get to a full ride scholarship without getting a full athletic scholarship. She could have gone to a smaller D1s didn’t like the schools. She kept looking. She was invited to a lot of the D3 schools that are favorites on CC - Kenyon, Rhodes, Centre, Smith - but didn’t like those either. Academically, she could have gone to any of the big flagships, but she wouldn’t have seen any playing time. The program she found is perfect for her. The program is new, so that means she plays all the time as a freshman, but it also means they lose a lot. There are good and bad sides to every opportunity.

OP asked if it is worth giving up the full scholarship for the walk on. I don’t think there is an answer to that. Neither program seems right for her daughter. I think if she keeps looking she’ll find a school she likes with at least some athletic money or at least a D1 she likes better. Her daughter wants it to be over, so is willing to sign for big loans. I don’t think that’s a good idea and that she’ll regret it.

30

@6chickadees
Oh boy…I see this as paying $90k to “maybe” get some court time at a big school that gets TV time. But seriously, does VB get on TV? Does anyone watch? College VB is usually a terminal degree…no further progress from there. So you literally are payng $90k more for the experience. Yikes!

Since the full ride also provides the VB experience, and maybe better, bc she may get more court time! And it sounds like a better avedemic school, which should be priority 1 for a 3.95 student.

The loan issue is leverage. I would not want to co-sign under these conditions! It looks like you have a number of others to get through college too. Your D needs to be realistic.

31

I would have to agree with Fenway re the fruition of a “verbal commitment”. There is no guarantee of any kind that athlete will play or will even make the team. in our experience, an oral “agreement” for a walk-on is meaningless. The most it usually mean is that the athlete may be given a try-out for the team. It would be very risky to choose a school primarily based on a verbal walk-on offer. Such offers are not binding and are pulled all the time. There is also always the possibility of coach turn-over ( a frequent occurrence) after which the new coach would most likely not honor any verbal agreement.

I’m not familiar with VB but know that in other sports (soccer in our case) there would still be time for D2, D3, and even lower level D1 offers.

32

No way you can be a part of her going that much in debt for a mediocre education. Kids see their friends going to the large state party schools and want both that and their sport - its almost impossible to have both. I have seen 100+ kids go walk on or get tiny (books, or 10%) offers at their favorite state school. I can count on one hand the number that got any significant playing time.

From the experience of 2 kids playing at D1 schools I can tell you the walk ons get little to nothing from the programs - minimal coaching, begging for gear, lack of training and inclusion with the team, no travel, and frankly being looked down on by the scholarship athletes. I’m not saying its right, but its a fact of life as a walk on.

D thought she wanted to go to a large state school and I knew it wasn’t the right place for her. No way I was letting her go to “Party U” and I wasn’t paying for it when she could get a lot of athletic scholarship money at some great schools. So we went on 5-6 visits (some official, some unofficial) and she liked different things about different schools. Late in the process she heard from a school that I loved but who had showed little interest. Turned out an asst coach had left and took her file with him, the HC began recruiting her very hard. I really didn’t expect her to like the school that much but she went on official visit and loved it. Had an incredible first year and is more excited about her school and sport than ever before. So you just never know about the timing of recruiting at specific schools.

Both my kids saw many HS teammates and competitors go the large school “walk on” route, most are sitting and watching, rarely participating, and mostly unhappy - on average they stick with it 1-2 years. Not saying it can’t be a great experience, it can, but if a kid is used to being a big fish it can be a very difficult adjustment. Being on the roster of a minor sport at a P5 school isn’t nearly as glamorous as most kids think its going to be. Volleyball, Softball, Soccer, or Track and Field is not like playing SEC football or ACC basketball.

33

i’m just impressed that you have 6 kids and managed to save $50,000 (!) for just one of them!

34

Hi all! Thank-you for all of the great information and lots of different points to think about. I want to share that my D did verbally commit to the full-ride school on Monday. She made the verbal commitment (and called all of the coaches involved – college, club, etc) without talking to us first (sigh). We still are not sure it is the right place for her (I would have steered her to keep looking). But, it is a good decision… she is letting it sink in… ironically, of ALL of the colleges she has visited (over a dozen) – it is the ONLY one she did not buy gear from. I guess it is time to buy her a shirt :slight_smile:

35

Sounds like this may be a done deal now…and thankfully not an expensive one for you and your family. I was going to second/third having her “unpack” (love that word) the current teams…how many were walk ons…what they get as far as playing time…etc. I suspect you could buy her TV time for less than it would cost you for her to sit on the bench.

36

Congrats!!! You can buy a bunch of shirts and still come out way ahead! Hope it works out for the best.

37

Another (late) point is the big D1 schools are recruiting heavy for your replacement as well. If you are a fringe player on the roster, each year new top players will be recruited and signed that want your spot. Just how it goes at the big programs. Nothing is guaranteed.

38

Last night at a graduation event one of the parents there told us about their son being accepted off the wait list to a D1 school in his sport. In an email (that they of course saved) the coach told him that he could walk on when the season starts. He gave up his slot at a D3 school, and as you’ve already guessed the coach has subsequently told him that he’s decided that there will he no walk ons next year.
The D1 school is very good academically, and in many ways a better fit, so it’s not fatal, but the chance to walk on clearly played a role in the decision-making process.
This thread has other stories like this, so it really is ‘buyer beware’ in this whole area.

39

Letting your child take out $90k in loans for undergraduate is simply irresponsible. If your DD is not mature enough to realize the life-long consequences of being saddled with that kind of debt, then you have to be a parent here and take that D1 school off the table.

40

Congrats to your DD and to you Chickadee. Sounds like she figured it out all by herself in the end. She must feel she can fit in at this smaller school since she committed all on her own. Now you’ll have extra money yo buy her several school shirts!