Full Ride at UCSD vs Duke, Johns Hopkins, Harvard

<p>"Berkeley is most selective does not mean it holds the best department or university environment for pre-med students. "</p>

<p>-It is interesting to note that Berkeley’s UGrads have highest representation at D’s Med. School class (first year), even higher than UG connected to Med. School. However, D. came from state school (full tuition Merit scholarship). Does not proof anything except the fact that going to place where you fit is the best. Yes, we are paying for her Med. School, mostly because we did not pay for UG. We could afford paying for both, but we really appreciate the fact that we did not have to do so for UG.<br>
Why there is even a question, everybody should go where they want to go based on their personal preferences.</p>

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<p>And you have the statistics to support your assertion? Please do share.</p>

<p>^There could be no valid stats, since some pre-med committeis simply would be so supportinve of some of their UG’s applicants (pre-selecting them so to speak to make UG looks better). So, I question all these stats in regard to “getting their students to med. school”. Pretty bogus numbers, garbage in, garbage out, just like computer entries. Statistics could be so easily manipulated, trusting it is not a good research tool at all.</p>

<p>^^ Berkeley stats based on self reporting is around mid 50%. UCSD stats based on AAMC data is about mid 40%.</p>

<p>UCSD is a better place to premed IF you belong to the top 5%.</p>

<p>I don’t think you can pass up Harvard if you get in.</p>

<p>And since you want to be a doctor, I think the same can be said for Johns Hopkins.</p>

<p>“I don’t think you can pass up Harvard if you get in.”</p>

<p>-The key is in “I don’t think”. This is exactly what it is, it is strictly your opinion. Many many top caliber student (ranked #1 in prep. private schools and top publics) do not even apply to Harvard, any other Ivy or JHU or any elite UG for that matter. They are not aspired to do so. It is thier choice. And they have no problem getting to top Med. Schools later if they continue to work hard in UG. You have to work very very hard in any UG (including Ivy), if you are planning to go to Med. School.</p>

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<p>Your opinion. My S had no interest in Harvard so he never applied but turned down admission to Yale (EA), Stanford and Princeton.</p>

<p>^one example, another is my D. She did not turn down Yale, Stanford or Princeton, she just never applied. She could have not been accepted, how we will know now? She applied only to schools that she was interested attending. Everybody’s criteria is different from others, there are no general rules even for kids with very similar HS backgrounds. I know many examples, good number of them are kids with at least one MD parent, who have access to free Med. School. The reason I know them is because many of my D’s HS classmates had MD parents. D. said that she was surprised to know how many of them went to local Med. School. It was no surprise to me - free Med. School is free Med. School, it is much harder to pass than Harvard acceptance. BTW, good number of them also went to local UG, why not? They had Merit awards to cover full tuition or close to it.</p>

<p>Again, it is not for everybody. We are in free country, choose what you want.</p>

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<p>Since when did the plural of anecdotes become “stats” even worth quoting? (perhaps that AP Stats class is in order.)</p>

<p>Getting into Harvard or the like is to be congratulated. However, the student needs to make sure that he/she is not going to end up in the bottom 30%. If so, I think the chance of getting into a top Wall Street firm, a T14 Law school, or a medical school probably would not be too good.</p>

<p>^Med. School does not care, I do not know about others. All Med. School cares is GPA=3.6+, decent MCAT, reasonable number of EC’s, and LORs. If GPA=3.6 is bottom 30%, so be it.</p>

<p>“I don’t think you can pass up Harvard if you get in.”</p>

<p>LOL, logic 101: If you “got in” to Harvard, that means that you applied. IF you did not apply, then the comment above does not concern you, your S or your D. The writer is doing nothing more than paraphrasing a well known fact that Harvard has one of the highest yields (if not the highest) in the nation. If I had gotten off the wait list, it would have been a VERY difficult decision to make, notwithstanding full COA merit awards at state. :)</p>

<p>I agree with what MiamiDAP said regarding how every individual’s choice is different. At the end of the day, whether undergrad (Harvard vs. state school) prestige matters in med school admissions is up to the individual and every person will have a different opinion on this. There are both a yes and no. Undergraduate prestige matters when you face a med school admissions committee with a majority of them sharing the same views as you. Undergraduate prestige does not matter when you face a med school admissions committee with opposite views towards undergrad prestige as you. </p>

<p>Therefore, it is up to the individual to make his/her own decision about undergrad, taking into account his/her own separate experiences (includes hearing what others have said, reading CC posts, looking at raw med school data) to decide whether or not undergrad prestige matters for med school when selecting a college. </p>

<p>Personally, I believe it matters and I have my legitimate reasons for believing so. Others may disagree and they have their legitimate reasons for not believing so. I had to pick between going to JHU or to U Maryland Gemstone (gemstone covers full tuition, room board, etc) and I chose JHU because I believed that the ~55k/year is gonna be worth it come time for med school admissions. A good friend of mine was faced with a similar situation, but instead, it was Duke or U Maryland Gemstone and he chose gemstone because he didn’t think the ~55k/yea was going to be worth it. We both have our legitimate reasons for making our own decisions. It’s all up to whether or not the admissions committee adcoms who review your application think the same way as you. Some do and some don’t.</p>

<p>FYI, I kept my name on the Harvard waitlist and did not get in. I ended up choosing the full ride at UCSD. Also, I am not so sure right now if I truly want to go into medicine, so I really want to keep the option open for a career in engineering. I hope that whichever path I end up choosing, UCSD provides a solid background for me.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12373390-post16.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12373390-post16.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>A couple of years ago, I wrote the following to a young lady then entering UC Berkeley:</p>

<p>Don’t calibrate your expectations based on other Berkeley students. You will have to be much smarter and harder-working than most of the kids around you. I remember that during MCAT season, I had one friend at Duke and one friend at UCB. They both scored a 31 on the MCAT. My Berkeley friend celebrated by throwing a party, and all of his friends were very jealous of him. My Duke friend immediately began studying for a retake and his friends all sympathized with his troubles and loaned him their study books. You will have to hold yourself to a higher standard than Berkeley undergrads hold themselves to.</p>

<p>Get to know your professors. Make an effort. This is difficult, because you have to straddle the line between brown-nosing and passivity, but the vast majority of Berkeley kids will err on the side of passivity. Avoiding brown-nosing does not mean sitting back and being quiet; it means being genuinely excited rather than faking it. Remember – you have to be a racehorse, running for its own sake, not a pack mule.</p>

<p>Branch out and find a diverse group of folks. You have to be careful to cultivate a balanced worldview. You will learn from the people around you, if they are different enough; you will reinforce your own tedencies if they are too similar. Berkeley is bigger, but that just means it’s easier to find a “critical mass” of students who are very similar. Avoid them. </p>

<p>[My friend and I are both Chinese, and it’s often easy for us to fall into Chinese cultural surroundings. That has advantages and disadvantages; I wanted to highlight the disadvantages for her.] Specifically, I’ve found that Asian culture sometimes promotes a few very common problems: (1) treating schools as trophies rather than as education; (2) being very geographically picky and thus limiting their options; (3) jumping through hoops only when there are immediate goals involved rather than intellectually exploring. </p>

<p>Ask for lots of advice from students at other schools – particularly private schools like Duke and Penn. I was applying at the same time as one of my good friends who was a UCB undergrad, and he basically did whatever I did. He didn’t have any pre-med advising, but he saw that I did. Following my lead meant that he was, by extension, getting similar advising to me. He ended up at Yale Med. The Internet can help you here, too. I avoid studentdoctor.net because the people there are hyperneurotic and extremely rude, but collegeconfidential.com is a useful resource.</p>

<p>Embark on geographic and intellectual adventures. Going to Duke from California is kind of like an automatic study abroad; since you’re staying within a 15 mile radius your entire life, a study abroad (or somewhere else within the US) is especially important. (And no, China and Taiwan don’t count.) You absolutely have to make good use of your summers, so avoid summer school at all costs. Many students tend to like summer school a lot: it’s easy to find, intuitive, their parents understand what it is, and they already know they’re good at school. This is a huge mistake. Summers are for adventures or exploring; you already spend 75% of your life demonstrating that you’re a good student. Do something else. Ideally, do it SOMEWHERE else.</p>

<p>Travel a lot. Skipping school is okay, really. Make sure to go whenever you can, but having some defined absences just to travel is good too. Take a trip with a few friends to Tahoe. Fly out to Seattle and see the space needle. Go visit Texas: ride a mechanical bull at a bar, eat a big Texas steak, and watch an Astros game. Spend a semester in Greece. You’re saving a lot of money on tuition [by going to an in-state public]; spend a little bit of it traveling. And travel within the US! – I know an awful lot of people who visit New York and London and think of themselves as cultured because of it. Make new friends, even if it’s scary at first. And actively seek out people who are from different parts of the US.</p>

<p>Grades are very important, but they are not the most important thing. Good grades alone will not get you into medical school; mediocre grades alone don’t get you rejected. I have a C+ in organic chemistry, the most important premed class, and a 3.6 science average, but I got into 4 of the top 10 medical schools in the country while only being rejected by 3. MCAT scores, leadership potential, intellectual capacity, and – above all – an excellent application will matter much more, in the end. I know too many students who pour their lives into their grades and then botch the simple fact of getting your application in during June. If they had removed 0.5% of the effort they put into their grades and moved it into the application, they’d be MUCH MUCH stronger. As a general rule, your “schoolwork” is an inefficient place to allot your energy, provided you’re doing acceptably.</p>

<p>Take lots of different courses. Many students like to stick in their comfort zones, and Berkeley is one of those schools that encourages you to do so. Fight the inertia. Make sure to load up on courses which make you write. A lot. Lots and lots of writing. Take a cool language, like Arabic or Russian. Study geopolitics, history, and current events. Go to football games (and yes, that’s a valuable learning experience). Do as many courses with independent research as you can. Maybe an art class or two; I used photography, for example. Naturally many of these will lead back into medicine. When I took a photography class, I did a photodocumentary on a cancer patient in the hospital. When I took a game theory class, I did my project on health insurance. But the point is you’re exercising all the different parts of your brain.</p>

<p>Minimize the competitiveness you have to deal with. One of the solutions to competitiveness, of course, is to have a diverse group of friends! I had a circle of five close friends at Duke. The five of us majored in Biology, Political Science, Public Policy, Economics (me), and Math. This way we all rooted each other on and learned together. I found one or two study buddies in each class who very nice people with whom I could study in a relaxed fashion while still learning. They all turned out to be white, from the South, and older than me; I didn’t plan that, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence either. Study at home, not in the library. Have friends who do different things and are on different schedules. Make it a point not to talk about school with competitive people. There’s no need to impress anybody with how smart you are, and sometimes people will feel threatened by it. Don’t talk about school with other premeds; it’s usually just mutually stressful. Talk about current events, the football team, and church.</p>

<p>Make sure that moving out really is moving out. Go to a new church, even if your family’s church is nearby. Do your laundry and cooking on your own. Have defined times for you to visit your parents and for your parents to visit you – I think once a month plus holidays is very reasonable. September, they come visit you for a Saturday. October, you go home for a Saturday. November, they come visit you for a Saturday, plus you go home for Thanksgiving. Etc.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the helpful advice, bluedevilmike! And San Diego may not be as far away as Duke, but it’s still an 8 hour drive from my parents! So I’m definitely “really moving out” haha</p>

<p>Hello bluedevilmike, I have a question for you and would like to PM you or email you if possible. Thank you in advance if you have the time…</p>

<p>Bump for response.</p>

<p>bluedevilmike is a MS3 now. He doesn’t have time to pee. :wink: Post up your q. We could give it a try.</p>