<p>Over the past few months, I have been accepted (and rejected) from a number of schools. Right now, I am trying to decide between Caltech/UCSD medical scholars, MIT, Cambridge University, and Stanford. I would really appreciate any advice you have for a senior aiming at MD/PHD programs in four years. I know the obvious choice would be the BS/MD program, but my hope is that I would be able to get into a better med school that UCSD in 4 years coming out of the other schools. I could list the pro/cons of each school, but in favor of brevity I will just say that I would be happy attending any of these institutions. What is your opinion? Thanks!</p>
<p>but my hope is that I would be able to get into a better med school that UCSD in 4 years coming out of the other schools.</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>If money isn’t an issue and you’re a really strong student, why not go to Stanford?</p>
<p>sorry, I meant “than” not “that”</p>
<p>+1 for Stanford, any other views??</p>
<p>bump…</p>
<p>There’s a lot of info on this board that seems to suggest MIT’s not the greatest place for premeds. I know NOTHING about Cambridge and what it would mean to US allopathic medical schools.</p>
<p>That said, here are my thoughts on the BS/MD “sure thing” route vs traditional route (which for you would happen at CalTech/UCSD vs Stanford):</p>
<p>BS/MD programs are phenomenal for the right kind of student. If you’re the type of kid that’s driven, motivated, and diligent enough to do all the things necessary to be a great premed who demonstrates the potential to be a good physician–things like research, volunteering, shadowing, getting involved, leadership, etc etc–then BS/MD programs are great. My friends who are driven, motivated, and diligent–and who also happen to be part of my school’s BS/MD program–definitely enjoyed the luxury of not having to take the MCAT or stress about applying to schools. They’re thrilled with their path and haven’t looked back. They chose not to use the BS/MD program as an excuse to be lazy.</p>
<p>I have friends who are in the BS/MD program but who are, for brevity’s sake, lazy and unmotivated. They didn’t bother exploring the field after they were accepted to the program and are now questioning whether they want to make the commitment to medicine for their career as a result, which seems to be quite painful for them. In my opinion, they used the program as a crutch and as an excuse not to get involved in any way as undergrads and are paying for it now because they don’t know what they want to do. I don’t think a BS/MD program was the right path for these students.</p>
<p>I anticipate you’re like the first group of students, though, so it seems like a BS/MD program could be a really good option for you.</p>
<p>I chose to go the traditional (BS then MD (in 2015) route), and it’s been great. I have no complaints! My advice to you would be to learn as much as you can about the environments at CalTech and at Stanford to figure out, as best you can, which one you would really thrive in. If you’re in an environment where you’re comfortable thriving, you’re maximizing the chance that you’ll be a standout premed. A standout premed from Stanford should be able to find a med school to go to! Is Stanford a place where you can really shine? Or is that CalTech? If it’s both, do you care about the money? Do you want the relief of the sure thing/dual degree program? </p>
<p>If you think you’d be comfortable and would thrive at both, then I don’t think you can go wrong. Go with your gut and have fun!</p>
<p>I have heard a lot of posters on this forum say that usually students who are bright enough to get into BS/MD programs, should be able to get into other top medical schools. The combined program at UCSD, like other combined programs, tries to grab students who normally would not have considered UCSD medical school had they gone the traditional route (because they would have gotten into better medical schools) by giving them the guarantee of attending medical school.</p>
<p>Sorry if my post doesn’t make a lot of sense, but I just got back from a concert and am currently sobering up. =)</p>
<p>kristen and college, thanks for your replies. kristen, if I may ask, where did you do your BS and where are you going for MD? (pls feel free to pm me)</p>
<p>I have heard about MIT being hard for premeds as well, but I don’t think it is much harder than Caltech. Also, I have heard that MIT undergrads have a ~80% acceptance rate into med school. I don’t mind a challenge, and I really loved the environment at MIT (they have an ice rink and offer pistol shooting for PE!!, and it’s right next to MGH!!!) If I didn’t have the UCSD guarantee at Caltech, I think I would choose MIT in a heartbeat. </p>
<p>Anyways, I would like to think that if I chose the BS/MD program I would not become stagnant. For me, UCSD med only represents a reassurance (albeit a very significant reassurance). In terms of environment, I much prefer the Caltech/MIT environment over Stanford’s. I live right next to Stanford, and I really hate the big feel of the campus and the competitive/cutthroat attitudes I have heard about. However, I am still considering Stanford because, as you said, doing well at Stanford essentially guarantees a med school acceptance. Still, I am reluctant to “go with [my] gut.” </p>
<p>Lastly, if anyone has any data on premed acceptances out of Caltech, MIT, and Stanford, that would be really REALLY appreciated. Specifically, I would like to know if most premeds get into schools better than UCSD.</p>
<p>
Absolutely not. UCSD is a top-15 medical school, if memory serves. No way. Won’t even be CLOSE.</p>
<p>Stanford and MIT hover in the low 70%'s for admissions to anywhere. MIT makes their information publicly available; Stanford gives it out to admitted freshmen who sometimes are kind enough to pass it along.</p>
<p>With that said, doing well at any of these schools will essentially be a guarantee of medical school acceptance somewhere (if you have a pretty complete definition of “well.”) I don’t anticipate that any of these will be significantly better for the specific purposes of getting into medical school.</p>
<p>Of them, Stanford has the reputation of being the least cut-throat. No idea whether that’s correct or not.</p>
<hr>
<p>EDIT: Your statistical question isn’t quite the right one, though. As Colleges points out (#6), you wouldn’t be the normal Stanford or MIT premed. The CalTech program wouldn’t have admitted you if you were.</p>
<p>Yeah, UCSD is a great med school. The only thing that worries me is that looking at their match list (<a href=“https://meded.ucsd.edu/asa/admissions/match_2009/[/url]”>https://meded.ucsd.edu/asa/admissions/match_2009/</a>), I’m not seeing many people getting into surgery residencies (my interest) at places like MGH, JHU, Stanford, or UCSF. I know these are extremely competitive, but nevertheless, I’m really hoping to land a top surgery residency (naive, I know…)</p>
<p>Regarding premed data, all I could find was this for MIT: ([Preprofessional</a> Stats - MIT Careers Office](<a href=“http://www.mit.edu/~career/infostats/preprof.html#med]Preprofessional”>http://www.mit.edu/~career/infostats/preprof.html#med)), which doesn’t offer any info about specific med schools. I haven’t received any such data from Stanford or Caltech either. To rephrase my question, I would really like to know from which school the greatest percentage of premeds get into medical schools better than UCSD; and secondly, what are these percentages?</p>
<p>Match lists are really hard to read, even for me as a third-year medical student. And it’s very naive for even a first-year medical student to know what specialty they’ll want (they’re right something like 10% of the time), so for a high school senior it’s a hopeless exercise. The chances that you’ll actually want to go into surgery are absurdly miniscule.</p>
<p>I happen to know the numbers from my class a few years ago at Duke, where roughly 45 of my classmates went to top-ten medical schools, out of a pool of something like 300 applicants. And that’s a REALLY GOOD ratio. Duke’s overall admissions rate was noticeably higher than either Stanford’s or MIT’s that year – something like 85% versus 70%. So those schools were probably doing worse than 45/300.</p>
<p>I should also remind you that the caliber of your residency is not particularly important unless you are interested in becoming a professor at a medical school. Otherwise it’s really not that big a deal.</p>
<hr>
<p>EDIT: I don’t know why I keep forgetting this.</p>
<p>Remember, these statistics are not really measuring the question you want to know. The question you want is: what will your odds be? They are likely to be higher than average within these pools. More to the point, the question of which undergraduate institution you attend is unlikely to affect that probability very heavily.</p>
<p>EDIT2: Note, too, that all numbers are out of students who eventually apply to medical school. Nationally, half of students who take the MCAT never bother to apply at all (presumably, most of them have scores which are too low to make it worthwhile). And that’s probably after three-quarters or so have dropped after getting poor grades in classes like organic chemistry or finding other, more interesting (and frequently more lucrative) fields.</p>
<p>For the match list in question, 21 of 123 candidates went into surgery, plus two into opthalmology. (Is this low? I have no idea.)</p>
<p>12 general surgery candidates went to UCSD (4), UCLA (4), USC (1), Harvard (1), and Other (2).</p>
<p>7 orthopedic surgery candidates went to Harvard (1), Michigan (1), USC (1), UC Irvine (1), Cleveland Clinic (1), Iowa (1), and Illinois (1).</p>
<p>1 ENT to UCLA and 1 Neurosurgery to WUSTL.</p>
<hr>
<p>(A) It appears that the OP doesn’t really know which schools are which.
(B) Heck, I don’t know which programs are good and I’m a third-year medical student. Michigan is a top-ten medical school, so I assume that means that its orthopedic surgery program is top-notch, but I don’t really know.
(C) One thing that seems to be hampering these folks is that they seem rabidly obsessed with staying in Southern California. That’s not necessarily an invalid preference (although it is kind of sad), but I think it’s safe to say that the list would have more “famous” hospitals if folks were a little more willing to leave Disneyland.</p>
<p>EDIT: Fine, fine. If you’re prefer that I use a more precise reductio ad absurdium, I suppose we can refer to it as “LegoLand.”</p>
<p>^ Point C is an interesting point, that would be interesting to know. However, regarding Point A, are you sure we’re looking at the same list? I only saw one neurosurgery resident, and he/she went to Barnes-Jewish Hospital. </p>
<p>Also, I know I should be considering how I personally would do at MIT/Caltech/Stanford, but that’s fairly difficult to predict. Right now, the only frame of reference I have is undergraduate acceptance into med school. <— And this data seems rather sparse.</p>
<p>[Barnes-Jewish</a> Hospital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes-Jewish_Hospital]Barnes-Jewish”>Barnes-Jewish Hospital - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>^LOL, I feel so dumb. I stand corrected, that is a very impressive match list. </p>
<p>Still, I don’t know if the UCSD guarantee really outweighs MIT for me. First and foremost, I want to go somewhere I will be happy, and the environment at MIT (MGH, ice rink, brain/cognitive sciences, boston, cool dorms, unique PE classes, etc) really excites me. In your opinion, bluedevilmike, how much is a spot at UCSD med worth?</p>
<p>**Q: Do most premeds from Stanford or MIT go to better schools than UCSD?</p>
<p>A: No.**</p>
<p>Premises:
–You measure “better” in terms of US News Research rankings, which is already a little questionable.
–UCSD is roughly a top-15 school, so you’re talking schools in the USN Top Ten or so.
–Duke in 2006 did no worse than MIT and Stanford will do in 2015, or at least not a LOT worse.
–Duke sent about 15% of premeds to top-ten medical schools at the time.
–15% is less than “most,” by a wide margin.</p>
<p>Oh that’s easy. In light of your post #15, you should go to MIT. (Obviously, you should also visit CalTech to see if you feel similarly about it.)</p>
<p>Look, these programs aren’t stupid. They’re not going around giving these guarantees to kids who aren’t going to be qualified for it in a few years. Will you be GUARANTEED a UCSD spot? No. But I’d bet more than even money on it if it were up to me.</p>
<p>Besides, college is much more than a stepping stone to get to medical school. It’s also a time to grow up, thrive, explore, and learn. On top of that, it also has to prepare you for medical school – and be able to open other doors in case you change your mind. If you think MIT is a better place for this than CalTech, then by all means that’s where you should go.</p>
<p>either ucsd or stanford is good for pre med</p>