<p>I wouldn't describe myself as a "hiring professional," rather I'm a professional who, on occasion, hires college grads but mostly people with Ph.D's. In any case, although I have my prejudices like anybody else, here is my opinion regarding your question: all those marvelous things your son did in high school only count for college admissions. After that, it's what he did in college, and after that, what he did in grad school, and after that, what he did professionally. Nobody will be hiring the superb high school student, they'll be hiring the person he is four years later. With stats like his, I'd guess he'll always be a superstar!
Among my colleagues and me, honors programs at flagship state universities get a lot of respect. And although I was educated at elite private universities, I have to say that the smartest and hardest-working people I've ever known are products of state universities. (And I include in this group faculty of Ivy League schools).</p>
<p>In that case, I take back what I said; Vandy appears to be the better choice for you.</p>
<p>My D hasn't heard from the Ivies yet, but has gotten a full tuition scholarship from Vandy. I have asked friends who attended Ivy League schools, all have said that it seemed to open doors for them. It's hard to know how to advise my D, who is a very hard worker, and I'm sure will do well no matter what. Of course, the decision is hers, but I am inclined to advise her to go for the big name (if it is offered), assuming she really likes the school. I hate to buy into all of this elitist crap, but of course, you always want the best for your child. Anyone's thoughts?</p>
<p>are you sure stanford isn't giving any financial aid to you and your family? the last time i checked (when i was applying myself) they gave generously to families who fell in certain income brackets, decreasing the expected parent contributions to very affordable levels.</p>
<p>The</a> Parent Contribution : Stanford University</p>
<p>this should be relevant. you should really consider stanford, considering the extremely low percentage of people who are accepted to the school. </p>
<p>people like me, who did not get accepted ea, need to resort to hoping for schools like vandy :P</p>
<p>
[quote]
...all have said that it seemed to open doors for them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>telpirt, that is a pretty nebulous statement. What kind of doors? Further education, top-paying jobs, invites to exclusive country clubs? In what part of the country are the doors located?</p>
<p>I believe anyone graduating at the top of the class from Vanderbilt is at no disadvantage vis-a-vis any graduate of an Ivy school when it comes to gaining acceptance to a graduate or professional program. Standardized tests, faculty recommendations and participation in research (with publications a bonus) are the important factors. The tests are going to be student-dependent, and as for the last two, I think a good case can be made for Vanderbilt over at least some of the Ivy schools. Faculty are very accessible, and good students do not have trouble getting involved in research early on. My son's experience with research opportunities, both during the school year and over the summer, has been excellent. </p>
<p>If a student is going directly into the work force after graduation, regionalism may still be a factor, but far less so than 10 years ago. If a graduate is considering staying in the south or midwest, or large parts of the southwest, Vanderbilt is very well known and well regarded--and to be honest, may be more impressive to some employers than an Ivy institution, unless the person doing the hiring is from the northeast.</p>
<p>Most of us, of course, want "the best" for our children. We left the entire college search and decision up to my son, and he defined the "best" to be a top-notch school that allowed him to graduate with no debt and a lot of money still in the bank, while providing him a good deal of flexibility to pursue multiple majors and do real research. He has been very pleased with Vanderbilt on those grounds, and he likes the school, the city and his fellow students as well. He has no regrets at all. </p>
<p>I guess I forgot to mention that he has a "full tuition/fees/stuff (plus cash for NMS finalist) scholarship, and that is why I am responding to your comments.</p>
<p>^^^As is usual of late, CC has garbled my post. Ignore the duplicated part at the top.</p>
<p>Stanford over Vanderbilt, without a question. PM me for more information -- I've faced this decision before.</p>
<p>I would have to say that Vanderbilt is the better choice.
They are both fantastic schools, and you stated that you are considering going to medical school. You definitely aren't gonna want 200k worth of debt before even getting into your graduate program.
Debt is no fun. Don't burden yourself or your family.
Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Go with Vanderbilt. Ask your parents to invest the 200,000 (or at least a portion of it) that would have gone to your Stanford education. </p>
<p>Here's a scenario: If your parents invested 50,000 and added 5,000 to that each year for 30 years (to total 200,000), assuming a 9% rate of return (I guess this recession has shown us that nothing is guaranteed, though), in 30 years you will have 1.5 million dollars and growing. Factoring in an average inflation rate, and you will have profited about 1.2 million dollars. If you don't add another cent after 30 years, by the time you are 60 you will have about 3.5 million dollars. So, do you think going to Stanford will net you an additional 3 million dollars by the time you retire? If you go to a great grad school anyway (which I'm sure you will, given that you got into Stanford early), it really shouldn't make a difference. </p>
<p>My advice: see if your parents are willing to do the deal I just proposed. If they are, I'd definitely chose Vandy. Note: I probably made some math error in here with the inflation but it's more of the idea that matters.</p>
<p>@nyccard,</p>
<p>To come into the Vanderbilt Forum and write such a post is nothing short of trolling.</p>
<p>To be fair, I would choose Stanford, but only because my financial situation is relatively secure. If my family were more economically uncertain, as too many families unfortunately are these days, then I'd be a bit more reluctant let go of the $200K.</p>
<p>With "conventional" logic, perhaps backed by uncited statistics, Stanford [might] get you a higher salary in the end, but -in my case, at least- it's the parents who take the hit. And your brothers, too - would you going to Stanford sacrifice their ability to attend any private school? </p>
<p>So again, it mostly depends on your (family's) specific financial situation.</p>
<p>One last thing--a tuition is only worth what you make of it. So whether you end up at Vanderbilt or Stanford, it's up to you to make it worthwhile. If you have ambition and drive, then I'm sure you'll be equally successful at either institution.</p>
<p>The OP should also make a thread about this on the Stanford forum. It's good to get both points of view because at the Stanford forum, you'll most likely get the pro arguments and reasons for Stanford. </p>
<p>Then, by comparing both forums, including the pros of Vanderbilt and the pros of Stanford, you'll have much more info to make a fair and reasonable decision.</p>
<p>Well, everyone keeps saying the E word. Economy. You should check if you'll get financial aid or try to apply for scholarships. You should not give up one of your top choices because you can't afford it. I believe education is worth more for the future even if it costs more in the present. It's an investment.</p>
<p>And finally, choose the college that fits you. Do not make money your sole determining factor for your decision. This decision is important, so take everything, such as college connections, location, professors, and the campus, into account.</p>
<p>As current senior at Vandy's engineering school, I must say that there definitely are opportunities for grads here to obtain admissions into to grad school programs (3 people got into MIT from chemE (40 people class), princeton, berkeley, among others). As someone pointed out, Vandy's engineering isn't ranked as highly as Stanford's, but it allows you to stand out if you chose to work hard. Really, the final degree (whether phD, med school, etc) is what matters and Vandy is a great stepping stone for you to achieve this.</p>
<p>When I visited Vandy after being offered the Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholarship, I straight up told the engineering dean that I was considering U of Illinois and Notre Dame. U of I is a large state school, and a top 5 rated engineering school in the country--pretty comparable ranking wise to Stanford. He told me that if I planned on getting a graduate degree of any kind, that would be the time to choose a place like U of I(or, in this case, Stanford) because for your masters/PhD you choose the best school in that discipline. However, as an undergrad, he recommended(and I would agree) that you want to choose based on what seems the best fit for you, and where you feel you will have the best experience all around, not just academic. If you have the drive and ambition to succeed, going to Vandy will not hold you back.
And keep in mind just because Vandy isn't ranked in the top 10 or 5, it is one of the top 40ish engineering schools in the WHOLE COUNTRY. Not too shabby. And I know their Biomedical is top 15, so keep that in mind.</p>
<p>ok, i'm not sure who it was earlier that posted "the ends justify the means"... but that's complete bull... I mean, lets be honest, I know we are not here to discuss morals, but that is obviously a false statement.</p>
<p>Secondly, when I go to school I don't exactly want to be a robot, ... I want to have some fun and make good friends... I'm not trying to become the next bill gates, but i'm not limiting my ambitions by any means... if I had your choice i would choose the full vanderbilt without any hesitation... for someone like me, who is not as amazing academically vanderbilt is up there in the sky somewhere... if i get accepted I will be the happiest person alive because I know that I will have the flexibility of a truly outstanding education and a wonderful social life. </p>
<p>just my two newby cents</p>
<p>i agree w nhsharvard on the posting this within stanford's thread too</p>
<p>Thanks for everyone's suggestions! I visited Vandy this last weekend and absolutely fell in love, but I plan to visit Stanford next month as well! As for posting on the other board, I have, but it seems to be dead over there.</p>
<p>marktwain, how nice of you to report back! Glad to hear you had a positive impression. Best of luck with your decision.</p>
<p>Yes, sorry I did not reply back for a while..I have, however, been checking back everyday and just decided to let the conversation go on without interfering. Before I start on my thoughts below, I just wanted to clarify that I messed up a little...I got the Cornelius which is full TUITION not full RIDE, meaning there will still be about 12k left to pay out of pocket (not considering any outside $ i may get). Additionally, Stanford's estimated aid was 8k, meaning 42k left; however, we have recently requested a review because of a reasonable drop in income, meaning there may be more to come. Oh, and I am Indian.</p>
<p>However, here are my thoughts. Academics: First impression I got at Vandy (please do not take offense to this) is everyone is NOT a genius..which is fine. Everybody there was definitely fairly smart because it does take it to get in, but it was obviously no Stanford. I met some amazingly smart people/professors, but everyone there was not on any amazing intellectual pedestal, which I am completely OK with, not a complaint, just an observation. Stanford, on the other hand, I feel will provide a plethora of intellectuality, as well as a more diversified group of amazing people. Now there are obviously both sides to this issue. I go to an (mostly) all-white high school, where I am used to essentially running things and getting to do what I want and normally being on top, that's just the way it is, as it is I'm sure for most of you and most Vandy students. Vandy will allow me to be whoever I want. I can double major with all of my AP credits, join a frat, be officers of organizations, get to be one of the best in my class, etc etc. At Stanford, I would be just another Indian face in the crowd. S is obviously way more competitive and cut-throat, and I would be much more limited in terms of the number of things I would be able to be involved in or academic options I would like to pursue. </p>
<p>Student body/Student life: There are not very many Indians at Vandy. Sure, a decent amount, but not a noticeably overwhelming amount. To tell you the truth, I almost preferred being unique. As I said, I attend an all-white high school, and almost enjoy being one of the few Indians and standing out from the crowd a bit. I feel it adds a bit of diversity and allows me to truly express my culture. At Stanford, I feel as if I may be just like the plethora of other Indians there, and would be almost forced to hang out with only other Indians. I have never been a fan of self-segregation, and would like to hang out/date people of all ethnicities, and I felt like Vandy would give me more of a chance to do so. </p>
<p>Student life: Parties at vandy are AMAZING. I only spent three days there, but I feel like I had more fun in those three days than I have had most of my senior year. Conversely, I had less sleep in three days than I did last night. The party scene is a big deal for me, because I am the type that loves to work hard/play hard. From what I hear, however, Stanford's is not half bad either, so I guess I will just have to wait and see (open to comments). I am also a huge fan of the Greek life system and plan to pledge w/ a frat, and I feel like Vandy would allow me to do that and still maintain a positive balance with academics. </p>
<p>Basically, I love everything about Vandy. Nevertheless, Stanford is clearly the better ranked school with the better, more prestigious name. Part of me feels like I would be sacrificing a tiny bit of my potential by going to Vandy simply bc of the money, but the other half knows that it is what I make it, and grad school is really what matters. There is no grad school/ med school that I would not be able to get into from Vandy, but clearly Stanford may give me a better chance. Also, Vandy is closer to home, and accepts most of my AP credits, meaning I can easily double major, where as doing so at Stanford would be impossible in 4 years (in BME and econ). </p>
<p>Feel free to comment/argue/refute anything I have just said, and thanks for all the thoughts!!</p>
<p>Hi Mr. Twain,</p>
<p>It's uncanny how much your situation resembles the one my son faces. He too was accepted SCEA at Stanford and has been awarded a full tuition Chancellor's scholarship at Vandy. Unlike your family which is at least being offered some FA, we qualify for none yet the prospect of coming up with $53,000/year for Stanford is daunting to say the least.</p>
<p>We live in California so we have visited Stanford before and my son loves it there. He has spent weekends on campus with friends and could definitely see himself there. However, in today's economic environment, to me it just doesn't make sense to spend $150,000 more over the course of 4 years on a Stanford UNDERGRADUATE degree. </p>
<p>We are visiting Vandy for two days in early April where my son will do the 'Dore for a day program and will spend some time talking to other kids on campus from CA to see what their experiences have been like.</p>
<p>I think your analysis of the two schools sounds spot on for whatever that's worth. If you haven't done so yet, you should do a search for EvilRobot who chose Vandy over Yale and has never looked back. In fact he just landed his dream job at Google this year.</p>
<p>Wishing you the very best in your decision and keep in mind, there really is no wrong choice to make. :)</p>
<p>marktwain, I'm coming in late - but I am going to tell you that unless Stanford comes up with more money, there is no contest and this is a no-brainer -- Vandy is a terrific school. It doesn't matter whether Stanford is "better" - there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to justify the cost differential unless your parents have money to burn. </p>
<p>I am posting this as the parent of one kid who graduated from a lower tier state college and another who is at an Ivy-caliber school -- but we qualify for need-based aid. There is no doubt that the prestige school offers more -- but it is not worth $30K more. And you aren't looking at that comparison -- between Vandy & Stanford if you want to assign a value to prestige, then Stanford might be worth spending a little more.... but it sounds like with all costs factored in, it would be $40K more for your family, or $160K over 2 years. </p>
<p>And consider the current employment market! I do think that in 4 years things will have improved.... but what about the need for summer employment this year and next to try to make a dent in costs? With Vandy you will be able to take unpaid internships if paying work isn't available. </p>
<p>And please don't underestimate the prestige value of having won a "name" scholarship -- that is something you can put on your resume next to your name, and it is a boost. </p>
<p>Really: its a great honor to have been admitted to Stanford, but you would be foolish to turn down Vandy's offer. You really won't regret it. The only lost "opportunity" would be the alternative use of the money/debt that you would incur at Stanford.</p>