My response about Disney wasn’t linked to Covid and safety. It was just being amused that Disney would rank at the top of someone’s list of what to do once they were vaccinated and returning to normal, noting merely how different humans are in their preferences. Disney wouldn’t be at the bottom of my list, but it’s certainly nowhere near the top. I’ve never understood those who return there over and over again TBH. (Seeing it once in a while is understandable.)
For those where Disney is at the top, I suspect our (Creekland’s) choices aren’t near the top of their list. Cruises are similar, though actually less appealing than Disney to us - yet for some they are eager to have them back. Pure differences and differences that exist even if Covid didn’t since we’re talking about returning to normal vs “what can I do safely.”
Those differences aren’t bad. They keep the world running. They just show how different members of the same species - even from a similar culture - can be.
ETA: Noting these differences for pure pleasure, it’s no surprise that someone’s College A is someone else’s College Z, with neither choice being wrong as long as it fits the student.
And you’re hitting the nail right on the head for me - and sort of the original point of this thread - “what can I do safely”. But for many, fully vaccinated means “return to normal”. I think “normal” is a long way off. As I sit here and see our local positive cases rising (even with plentiful vaccinations) and a state border very nearby that has had cases skyrocket to be unfortunately “leading the pack” of COVID numbers and a normally friendly country border an hour away that has been closed for over a year and doesn’t really seem to have a chance of opening soon…normal is a LONG way off.
Remember that even if you are fully vaccinated, other people in public may not yet have had a chance to be fully vaccinated and will not necessarily know that you are fully vaccinated, so they may not be too pleased if you stop practicing social distancing and wearing masks inside or when distancing is not possible around them.
Remember that only about half of the US adult population has gotten at least one dose of vaccine, and only a third has been fully vaccinated. There are also the under-16 kids who are not yet eligible to be vaccinated.
Reading this thread and others, I don’t think people want to return to normal at all. They want to eat in restaurants, but don’t want the restaurant to be full. They want to travel, but want airplanes to remain empty (especially middle seats). Don’t want to go back to the office and meetings and business travel.
We all want to retain the privacy we gained during covid. We like the flexibility to walk the dog at noon.
@ucbalumnus hopefully you are just stating this for emphasis - I did not indicate in anyway that I disagree with your comments - I 100% am in the “things are not safe and not normal for the near future” camp.
(Assuming that there are unvaccinated people around, or a public situation where others’ vaccination status is unknown.)
Agree for outdoor uncrowded situations where everyone maintains distance. However, in outdoor crowded situations, or those where you may be in the presence of the same other people for a while*, wearing masks may still be worthwhile, even though the base risk is lower than a similar situation indoors.
*For example, while waiting in a queue or eating at an outdoor restaurant, and the light breeze puts you directly downwind of the other people in the queue or at the next table.
My risk of breast cancer recurrence is 10%, and considered “high risk.” The risk of COVID after vaccination is about the same but is being presented as “low risk” by many. Interesting. Then throw in the variants and the vaccine reluctant. (Illness may be less severe if caught after vaccination.)
Vaccines, so far, are known to last 6 months. Let’s hope for a year. And let’s hope boosters can keep up with variants.
I think there are reasonable changes we can make to our behavior, but we need to keep the risks in mind as well. I don’t have PTSD because we haven’t hit the point where it becomes “post”!
Many people would like the world around us to be organized to give us stuff for less than the cost of providing it. Even before the pandemic you were happy to be on a plane with lots of empty seats to give you more room. But the real world doesn’t work like that: planes and restaurants either have to be full or will need to charge twice as much per user.
If business travel doesn’t come back then leisure travel will end up getting a lot more expensive by the end of this year. Given the level of excess savings over the last year, airlines are going to want to get their share when you travel for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I’d definitely plan to book now…
The risk of Covid after vaccination isn’t 10%. As the New York Times article cited above said, it’s 1 in 11,000, or 0.009%. That is indeed a low risk by any reasonable standard.
My wife and I are getting our first doses this coming Monday, but we’re having a bit of an out-and-about week this week. Our S22 is on spring break, and we’re in New York (we live in a Boston suburb) so he can look at some schools and so we can see our D19, a Parsons sophomore. We’re staying at a hotel, dining both indoors and outdoors at various restaurants. We’re going to a Knicks game tomorrow night and will be tested before entry. I’m working for the week, and my employer does weekly on-site tests, so I was tested yesterday and was negative. (For those of us based at smaller offices and/or working from home, my company offers at-home test kits that we return via FedEx, so I tested negative last week as well.) While Covid is highly contagious via indoor airborne spread, it’s not magical, and I think our precautions are serving us well. Definitely looking forward to full vaccination so I can put the last personal worries aside and start seeing friends regularly again.
To me, it’s going to have to go back once everyone who wants to be vaccinated has had a chance to do so. If people choose not to, that’s on them. As the article from the NYT said, there’s never going to be 0 risk from Covid, but being fully vaccinated (if one chooses) is the best we can get. I suspect given my recent news from med school boy that I’m in more danger of death or significant impairment from a stroke (when I had looked it up eons ago it was approx 10% annually) - and even with that likelihood I’m not sure I’m going to change anything to have less risk.
I have no problem waiting until everyone has had a chance though. H and I are already in that stage - still masking, still not eating inside, etc. But now in our area there are vaccine appts going unfilled. This means within a month or so everyone who wanted to, could have (locally).
Some things we will probably continue just because we’ve found we like them - like more take out and less indoor dining. We already mostly eat and travel outside of popular times to avoid crowds. That pre-dates Covid and will continue after it.
DIL’s company is likely to get her work remotely forever. Can’t blame them. Less costly on their end and she gets to live in a LCOL area vs a very high one. She’s looking forward to being able to travel internationally for her job though, so that won’t be gone forever.
It’s so hard to tell how all this will play out. We have a D21 who had to figure out where to go for college. She watched her sister in FL have 1 in person class all year. I think people have a misconception that because the state is 100% open the schools are. It’s the opposite- they had to protect themselves.
D21 chose to go in the other direction to UNH, that has had more rules, but more in person classes. I think she will have more of a chance of SAFELY living mask free, then her sister ever will. The states in New England will probably reach herd immunity. Florida… who knows!
My husband’s company is being very flexible. Most of the people who work at his location will be working remotely. He can’t wait to get back in the office.
My daughter is moving due to her significant other’s new job. But her employer would not give her any assurance that she would be able to work remotely. In fact the head of her division wants everyone back in the office ASAP. The other location in the US has not had the WFH mandates that her state has and they have been in the office for much of the past year. She decided to find another job.
Pfozer updated their effectiveness rate to 91% from 95%. I think effectiveness rate is different from the current “breakthrough” rate, which is not part of their study and is for a limited amount of time (since vaccines started). I am certainly encouraged by the NY Times article’s figure, which I have seen elsewhere, but in determining my own safety protocols, I am still going with the effectiveness rate. I guess I tend to go with worst case scenario in life due to personal experience.
The effectiveness rate is also often misunderstood. It’s not that 5% of people who get the vaccine will contract Covid. It’s that in trials, people who got the vaccine contracted Covid 95% less often than people who got the placebo. That translates to 99.95% of vaccine recipients not contracting Covid within three months, according to the Lancet.
so - going along with the thread title - how will you all deal with masks when you are around those who are vaccinated?
and here’s my frustration – around those who purposely chose NOT to get vaccinated? I’m like sdl065 from above: no masks if both agree & vaccinated. But - if one isnt/won’t vaccinated on purpose - and not wearing a mask - ???
It’s not really open to a layperson’s interpretation. It’s just not the case that 95% efficacy means that in a room of 20 vaccinated people, one of them will probably get Covid. It means you would need a room of thousands of people to expect one infection.
Sometimes you still have no choice - stores, restaurants, gyms, libraries all still require masks even if everyone has been vaccinated. Doctor’s offices and medical clinics still require them. Sports venues and concert halls still require them.
I’ve been trying to respect my friends’ choices and if they only want to eat outside or want to wear masks while we are walking, I’ll do it. Not a big deal to me. If asked, then I don’t want to wear them.