Gallup: Americans Rate Public Schools the Worst Place to Educate Children

Parent Cafe
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<p>Well, let me just correct you on the notion that “social programs only exist because they sounded good to some interested parties.” They exist (as an aspect of misappropriated educational funding) partly in response to observed social urgencies (family problems, poverty, involvement with law enforcement, psychiatric issues) which do in fact jeopardize learning outcomes. But the model of the State (i.e., the Government) solving such problems is a “solution” fraught with its own failure, or at least limitations.</p>

<p>If anyone’s wondering, it is not my imagination that the intent is to use governmental funding to address these social ills in the schools. It is explicitly stated by the loudest advocates of urban school reform especially, and those advocates go further than what I enumerated. They have seriously stated that “the only way” for the schools to be effective in at-risk neighborhoods is for the school – yes, the school – to offer employment training and placement to parents of the students :eek: as well as all of the other non-academic services already available.</p>

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<p>xiggi–you don’t really believe that teachers only work 1000/year do you? I am sure our teachers would LOVE a light schedule like that but the reality is they only work about 2 weeks less than your typical “full time” employee when you factor in average vacation time around here, and then they have to correct homework, do lesson plans, etc…</p>

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<p>confirming Steve’s comment…</p>

<p>Literally, my most recent public school teaching job gave me exactly July off. (= 2 weeks less work than a typical private sector f/t employee)</p>

<p>That was without “factoring in” prep time, paperwork, conferencing.</p>

<p>Not really pertinent to any of my other comments. Just verifying what he said. Nor does that have any relationship to disnechantment with the public school system and what it has become. I never went into education, nor am I still in it, for “vacations.” :wink: LOL, I have less time off now in other roles and settings in education, but I’m doing what I’m licensed to do. I’m not doing social work or faux psychiatry, law enforcement roles, etc.</p>

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<p>“There is a pervasive feeling in public schools that it is cool to be rebellious and to receive bad grades”</p>

<p>-This is sooo far from thruth, I have no where it even exists. Not in schools that my S. (public) and my D (private) went. Frankly, D. has never ever discussed academics with any of her friends (in HS, at college, in Med. School). The only time we knew in HS was at graduation, when the top kid got parents’ award, no VALs, no SALs, no ranking, no discussion whatsoever. We knew our kids’ grades and nobody else. So, how they even know who has what grades? It is pretty much big secret.</p>

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<p>I think that varies greatly. In small schools, everyone knows everyone, they’re gonna know. Even if you don’t want them to, some teacher will comment “top grade” when they hand back your paper and yeah…In bigger schools, I have heard of others, often minorities, pretending to get crappy grades when possible. What’s definitely the case is it’s totally acceptable to brag about hating and sucking at math in this country.</p>

<p>I was reading the “elite public high schools” thread and had to resist the urge to go “There’s no such place.” </p>

<p>So the obvious question would be why are parents sending their kids to public schools still then? All too often I see parents blame everyone but themselves. I was baffled too when my own mom agreed with this, when I complained that school had been worse (traumatic) than a complete waste of time since at least 4th grade. She replied that it had been that way even back when she went to public school. I’m like OK…so why did you send us to one? </p>

<p>We all know about ghetto places like Detroit with the 50:1 ratio, and I was not at all surprised to find a postcard asking for <em>college freshmen</em> with no training at all to come and teach the kids to read for $9/hr. DPS should just throw in the towel right now. </p>

<p>What makes K-12 so dire though, it doesn’t much matter if from urban, rural, suburb, upstate NY etc. It’s all pervasively bad and no, I’m not excluding private schools from that. I think it’s truly broken and blame lies everywhere for that.</p>

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<p>It’s all pervasively bad and no, I’m not excluding private schools from that. I think it’s truly broken and blame lies everywhere for that.</p>

<p>So do you have a plan? Are you going into education?</p>

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<p>I believe what I wrote, namely that teachers do perform about 1,000 hours per year --with perform being the guiding term. Do I believe that they have 2 weeks less than the average full time employee? That gets a splendid NO as an answer and a wide smile! </p>

<p>But heck, it does not matter what I believe or not. One can google for easy terms as Collective Bargaining Agreements, and see how far off I am.</p>

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<p>Are they talking about just public K-12 schools or public colleges/universities as well?</p>

<p>Because I have family members who have a VERY low opinion of public universities:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-colleges/1352073-pet-peeve-umass-amherst-not-amherst.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-colleges/1352073-pet-peeve-umass-amherst-not-amherst.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I personally think K-12 pushes kids WAY too hard, and I second the notion about NCLB. It’s such a misnomer – look at how many WERE left behind. It’s social Darwinism at its cruelest, and FWIW I think it’s downright abusive, something you might find in communist Russia or Red China but not here in America.</p>

<p>My mom taught kindergarten and she laments that “babies” (as she calls them) have to learn physics these days, and I think she’s right in saying that this country wants to punish the “little dreamers” who don’t sit down and do algebra before being toilet trained, and force them to make sneakers in sweat-shop factories like the ones who reach puberty without a Ph.D. have to do in Beijing. She believes the obesity crisis to be in part due to the removal of recess in favor of academics, and the so-called ADD “epidemic” due to harsh enforcement of academic standards far too young when play should be emphasized, not high-stakes SAT prep for god sakes.</p>

<p>She also told parents they should restrict if not avoid video games for their kids, and this is way back in the middle '80s when Nintendo (Mario Bros.) was all the rage. Now she still feels the same way about iPads and Internet in the classrooms. iPads are not teaching. Sitting down and reading a story to kids, a story with PAPER pages and not Kindle, is teaching. Give a mouse a cookie – don’t give a kindergartener a mouse.</p>

<p>I think a lot of these “■■■■■■■■” kids are so socially mute not because there’s anything inborn wrong with them but because socializing has been de-emphasized too. Recess isn’t just about physical activity; it teaches socialization, and solitary academics has been the focus of educators since the idiot savant Bushwhacker became king of the cowboy camp. They get punished for talking in class, for trying to make friends, well, eventually you’ve got an “epidemic” on your hands where silence, conformity and math aptitude (logic > emotion) are prized and creativity (= A.D.D.) considered a mental disorder. K-12 education is the Borg hivemind and it’s turning out a bunch of emotionless Trekkies. Just like China wants, right?</p>

<p>Why don’t we quit trying to keep up with F.U. Manchu already and let kids be kids? Not saying to let them run wild and swing from the light fixtures, but bring back recess and let them exercise their energies rather then drugging them up! Do away with the test requirements and get technology the hell out of classrooms. You don’t need an e-mail account at 5 years old. You need toys and playmates or coloring books and stories read to you. Photoshop is not a coloring book, and Siri is not a storyteller.</p>

<p>Oh, and no more political correctness about dodgeball and “participation trophies.” The angry, narcissistic parents who think losing at teeball is a personal affront need professional help, not their kids. The same was true for missing the rush at Filene’s for Cabbage Patch dolls when my mom had just begun teaching. I think a big problem with K-12 education besides NCLB and our China envy is the ego-driven parents themselves. Just look at the TV show about the JonBenet clones and tell me there’s not a psychological epidemic going on with parents that’s getting passed onto their kids.</p>

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<p>" In small schools, everyone knows everyone, they’re gonna know."</p>

<p>-Nope, my D’s graduation class had 33 kids. Not many out there that are that small. Kids might know who to ask for help, but no way they will know the grades, unless they go around bragging outloud about them and nobody does that.<br>
Never heard about “lowering” youracademic status deliberately from my S. either who went to large public (about 300 kids in his class at graduation).<br>
There were simply no discussion about it at either, “who cares?” type of attitude.</p>

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<p>jrandom – Preach it! I will read anything you write. Please don’t go away.</p>

<p>As for dodgeball, though: Teachers should NEVER make it mandatory. Forcing children to stand in the middle of a circle where classmates are throwing balls at them, sometimes very hard, is mean.</p>

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<p>I have a new addition to my top 10 favorite CC member list: Making room for jrandom. </p>

<p>(Marsian, dodgeball can be fun…it is just the old way of doing it that is awful. Use 3-4 smaller nerf balls, use only underhand throwing/rolling. Two teams face each other. The kids who are hit must run out past a line behind their opponent. When someone from their team throws it overhand to them (above the heads of the opponent) and the “hit” kids catch it, they can return back to their side and keep playing. I used this version with my kids at recess and they love it!)</p>

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<p>I agree that the material provided isn’t challenging enough at many schools, but the student can do things outside of school to learn and push themselves. Some of my friends studied for and took AP exams without taking the AP class and read books in foreign languages for fun. There are a lot of things that you can do outside of the classroom to learn and you’ll have a huge advantage when you apply to college.</p>

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<p>It is not surprising that public schools fare the worst in the survey. In many cases, they are not the parents’ or students’ choice of school, but one which they are assigned to by living in a certain location. In contrast, all of the other options are chosen by parents or students, and people are more likely to be happier with things that they chose, rather than what they had to accept because there was no other choice.</p>

<p>But all categories have tremendous variation in actual educational quality between different schools (for example, many private schools, particularly religious schools, are not academically elite, nor do they have that as part of their mission). What matters for any given parents and student is the quality of the choices available to them.</p>

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<p>Re: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-colleges/1352073-pet-peeve-umass-amherst-not-amherst.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-colleges/1352073-pet-peeve-umass-amherst-not-amherst.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For certain subjects like computer science, the state school is the better one.</p>