I think there are a LOT of assumptions in post #18 that are simply not true IME.
“Harmful effect of primarily reading comics was my personal speculation from this theory;”
So it’s all made up in your own head. Good to know. In fact, I’ve read several articles that say getting a kid interest in reading ANYTHING will lead to them reading MORE genres, not reducing what they can and can’t read and process. I also know a very talented, very adept teacher who has used graphic stories to tutor reluctant readers with great success. You are free to keep your kids away from them if you so choose, of course, whether or not your theory is a valid one.
@marian - “The students are taught to do math using techniques unfamiliar to the parents.”
Exactly. It’s been 10 years since early ES for us but the math then was incredibly frustrating for me (I was EE at UT-Austin, so I’ve had plenty of math!). I can’t remember the specifics but it seemed like this newest math technique made everything an ordeal. The kids could have simply memorized multiplication tables faster than learning all these techniques (and would have been better off, imho). I won’t even go into the 25 vs 52 lunacy. Surprisingly, my D’s AP Calc AB textbook is almost identical to my college Calc textbook … which makes me a little nervous knowing that she’s taking the class in 11th grade while I took it my freshman year of college. At least I’ll be able to help her now.
In my experience of reading graphic novels and manga (and comic books when I was younger) there’s a lot of things you can get from them that you don’t get from a regular novel. At least I frequently think about how the writer uses the art to amplify the story. Which panels get full pages? And why? How does the style of the drawing help or hinder the story? Is a novel like * Maus* helped or hindered by rendering everyone as animals? If there is a story within a story or a flashback sequence how do you do that with the art and not just words?
I had a kid who taught himself to read at two and another who finally caught on at eight. I read to both all through elementary school. They both became avid readers (like their parents). I think we modeled reading, had a house full of books, and yes they probably had good genes too.
School had nothing to do with the first child’s reading. The second kid did Reading Recovery at the end of first grade which was much more helpful than his classroom teacher. But mostly it seemed to me, he just had to be ready. He went from struggling with Nate the Great to Harry Potter overnight. He still remembers the night when I was reading HP to him and suddenly all the squiggles had turned into words.
OP>>>“Parents” should be part of the success formula too, IMO.
Many students, as they get older, tend to give more importance to their perceived peers’ status, opinion, their own understanding where they stand than the parents possible involvement.
Also, some students are early learners and many parents assume that they will continue the same trajectory.
@SculptorDad, do you also have concerns about exposing very young children to picture books?
lucky for me I won the genetic lottery in both looks and IQ!
joking aside there is a maximum potential every person is born with…some people are just born smart and some are not. whether every smart person who is blessed (non religious) with high intellectual capacity uses it or not is another story.
“do you also have concerns about exposing very young children to picture books?”
No I don’t. Picture books are very helpful as young readers develop both learning skills as well as build up database of images to understand the world. As I recall, mine read bout 2000 picture books. Most of them I borrowed from libraries by checking out 100 books at a time. Dd still keeps her favorite collections like Berenstain Bears.
As she was getting older and her reading skill was improved, she naturally moved to chapter books, which are mostly texts with only some pictures. After reading most of well known and recommended chapter books, about a 1000, she eventually moved into regular books.
I used reading levels on this site to recommend her new books according to her improving reading level.
http://www.arbookfind.com/UserType.aspx
For the record, I believe that reading graphic novels are helpful in reading skills training too. My concern is only when some kids who can enjoy complex and long novels mostly read only comics and manga, and not getting chance of developing certain brain function required to enjoy word novels.
This is of course, as suggested above, what I made up in my head. Take it or leave it as you will.
Huh? Decades ago, they were teaching kids about the commutative property of multiplication (and addition).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutative_property
Why wouldn’t a high school AP calculus course use a textbook like that used in a typical (not honors or Caltech or Harvey Mudd) college calculus course?
“Surprisingly, my D’s AP Calc AB textbook is almost identical to my college Calc textbook”
That’s how it is supposed to be, by definition and design philosophy of “Advanced Placement” by College board. It’s not for everybody. High school kids who are not read for or doesn’t want college level course are supposed to take regular Calculus.
On the other hand, in the different part of world where we import huge number of engineers to sustain our industry, Multi Variable Calculus is standard high school curriculum.
“The kids could have simply memorized multiplication tables faster than learning all these techniques (and would have been better off, imho)”
While the new curriculum often sucks in real practice, the idea is noble. The goal is not making mediocre human calculators in which simply memorizing the multiplication table can be the best way, but helping them to understand how it works and ultimately raising independent thinker who can solve modern day problems that calculators can’t.
In practice, the curriculum is really really… immature and teachers are not trained to utilize them for the design purpose… That’s very… unfortunate.
@ucbalumnus - it wasn’t the commutative property but rather something where 2 groups of 5 did NOT equal 5 groups of 2. Seemed pointlessly confusing at such a young age.
About the AP Calc book. Maybe you don’t think 11th graders are different from college freshman … but I do. Hopefully, they’ll go through the content slower.
“Hopefully, they’ll go through the content slower.”
You are in luck. AP program is designed to teach exactly what college teaches but over one year span, instead of a semester. So they will go through the content slower.
Actually, an 11th grader on the +2 math track (i.e. taking calculus in 11th grade) should be a top student in math and better able to handle full speed calculus (i.e. BC in high school immediately after precalculus) than many students on the +0 math track taking calculus for the first time as college frosh. (AB is a slower paced version of calculus, covering only about a semester or a little more of the material typically found in college frosh level single variable calculus.)
Of course, if your school district has a tendency to inappropriately accelerate students in math (i.e. put students who really should be in the +0 or +1 math track in the +2 math track), then it may be that some of the +2 math track students struggle in math instead of finding math courses (including calculus BC) to be easy A courses the way +2 math track students should find them.
Reading–After finding pitfalls in the teaching of phonics in our school, I taught son to read before he started school.
So I short circuited the program. VERY happy I did. I ended up with a great reader who read way above grade level That had it’s own challenges. The “who read the most books contests” are frustrating to a 3rd grader reading Harry Potter at 300 pages rather than 20 page picture books.
Math–Eons ago, when I was in school “new math” was introduced. It was sets and subsets and circles and diagrams and drawing pictures and I can’t remember what else. I do remember that I hadn’t a clue. At all.
That old fiasco is just like today–confused kids and confused parents who wondered what happened to basic math.
My rocket scientist dad taught me math. He simply had me ignore all the “whatever the hell that is” and just taught me math. No teacher back then was arguing against the right answer to a math problem. And in our community they wouldn’t argue against rocket scientists when it came to math. So I guess I got home schooled while going to public school.
What math do elementary school teachers need to know? It could be that new math curricula developed by mathematicians and experienced math teachers may assume a higher level of math understanding and skill than elementary school teacher credentialing programs require. If that is the case, then perhaps that is the problem that comes up whenever new math curricula are introduced.
@gouf78, your comment reminded me of a quote from Colin Wilson:
“Concentration is exactly like learning mathematics at school: it can be a highly disagreeable exercise that provokes nothing but negative emotions. If I hate mathematics, this is almost certainly because I am badly taught, and I have a certain inner resistance to the subject. … The famous teacher Trachtenberg, who devised his ‘system’ in a concentration camp during the war, could turn the worst pupils into enthusiastic mathematicians. And this was because his rules are so simple and easy to remember that students lost their fear of the subject, and took a certain pride in their ability to leap hurdles.”
“New Math” was introduced when I was a kid. 60’s.
It was sets and subsets and circles and diagrams and drawing pictures and I can’t remember what else.
My aeronautical engineer dad taught me math. He sent men to the moon and back. I remember to this day how upset he was with “new math”.
My dad says the “new math” was based on computer science at the time. So it was new and interesting. It really was “new” math. For computers.
BUT people are not computers–we created computers and not the other way around.
The old fiasco of “new math” in the '60’s is just like today–confused kids and confused parents who wondered what happened to basic math. The concept left a lot of kids behind. History is truly repeating itself. It felt like a bad joke then to parents–now it feels much worse.
Me?–My rocket scientist dad taught me math. He had me ignore all the “whatever the hell that is” and just taught me math. No bells or whistles. Thank goodness.
No teacher back then was arguing against a right answer to a math problem.
Neither of my kids had any problem with BC Calc which uses college textbooks and proceeds at the same pace as most college calculus courses aimed at students with no previous exposure. (Not talking MIT, Caltech or Harvard Math 55 here!) The difference between AP Calc and most college classes is that it meets everyday. But as others have said, AB Calc is available if you need a slower pace. Many high school students don’t need it.
My mother and I learned New Math together in fifth grade. I remember having fun learning set theory together - and it was probably when I first realized grown ups aren’t all-knowing and they can learn new things too. I actually loved it. So much more interesting than adding and subtracting. I loved all that abstract thinking.
I think my kids had a different math curriculum every couple of years, but generally I liked their math programs. There was an emphasis on getting number sense. They talked about friendly numbers - so learning that 8+39 could quickly be turned into 7+40 instead. They could do more arithmetic faster in their head than I could. They talked about arrays when they did multiplication. And looked at boxes of eggs and window panes as examples of multiplication in real life.
Neither of my kids learned to read phonetically except in a very rudimentary sense. They learned words and then poof, one day they could read anything after they’d somehow absorbed enough rules.
Basic phonics training was very helpful for my kid as we spoke mostly Korean and didn’t watch TV or listen to radio at home. So was audio books. Kid could understood 2 grade levels higher with audio books than printed books. We played entire Harry Potter series more than 10 times while she was making arts. My wife and I got sick of it, but alternating between Stephen Fry and Jim Dale narrations helped it somewhat.
Eventually she focused too hard on art to listen to the audio books at the same time, and could read printed books several times faster than audio books, so we stopped when she was about 9~10.