<p>I plan to apply at Princeton and because of that I need some help from someone.
What marks are necessary if I want to study languages and literature?
I'm in form 11 of a grammar school and will get my A-Levels in 2009. When do I have to ask for the application papers?
Thank you!!!!</p>
<p>Hi !</p>
<p>Are you the girl who took the SAT II in December in Bonn ? If yes, I warmly welcome you (I was the one you might have noted in Nov (SAT II) and Dec (SAT R) if not I'll give you hell because of your nick ;) No, any German culture can only help in Pton, especially if it (she) is good looking and drinks enough beer (which is often but not always self-excluding).</p>
<p>Back to your question: I cannot give you any grades, not only because I don't know them, but also because there is no definite answer. I applied this year ED with a 1,4 average and was deferred, but you might want to become better or at least as good as I am (in America, a 1,4 converted roughly to a 3,6 GPA is pretty bad actually in the Ivy League but we have a by far heavier course load and our As are much rarer than in the US). My Abi average is predicted 1,1... (3,9 GPA)</p>
<p>As an international, you will always have at least a slight disadvantage; more probable is a BIG disadvantage though Pton seems to be pretty fair about it. What really matters are your proficiency in English (you might want to use American English in your application) and your SATs (if you haven't taken them yet).</p>
<p>However, you have to know that whatever grades or SAT scores you will manage to achieve, there is NO garanteed "access" to Pton. Bound to our crappy university system, some Germans belief that above a certain score, you easily get into these universities, forgetting that academics are only one part of the medal.</p>
<p>It is very good that you plan so far ahead as this gives you time for preparation, but some things you should know:</p>
<p>A 1,0 and rank 1 out of 210 won't get you into Pton - I've already said that. Your academics are important and do everything to be outstanding, but also aim for taking the heaviest possible courseload. English LK will help you a lot, you should really think about it and if you don't feel strong enough for English LK, don't bother applying. The TOEFL won't be the problem, but by no means you will get through the SAT (made for natives). You will need 2 recommendations by your teachers plus a rec of your counselor and they should be awesome as well. Don't "schleim" (dunno the English term, to lazy to look it up) - they will know and they will report such a behaviour. Just be honest, friendly, creative and a bit special. Missing the lessons unexcusedly is certainly not a good idea. Even more, engage yourself inside the school (SV, orchestra, some AGs or at best sports (if your school offers). If you don't have any extracurricular again, don't bother applying. It would be a waste of time.</p>
<p>They want that you have a life and that you are capable of managing 2182 activities within 24 hours (because one day is not a minute longer). As my interviewer said: "In the first 12 days, you will try out 40 new things. Then, you'll reckon that this doesn't function and scale back on like a dozen things."
Do you work 6 hours a day for your success in school ? Now, that's certainly an achievement (and though it is not well respected in Germany, you should be proud on it - I never managed to work hard for school) but that's certainly not what they are searching for.</p>
<p>Oh and another thing are awards. Collect them, staple them, and then throw them into the mix. They are hard to achieve in Germany, esp. if you see how many distinctions are spread in the US but again: The guys and gals in the admission office are Americans, and while they know a little bit about your country, they are by no means experts. A lack will seem as if you haven't tried. Compete in the Math olympiad, jugend musiziert, some developer's or scientific honors etc. Your CV should include 10 pages at least ;) Forunately, you have some time left...</p>
<p>Community service and work experience are good things as well, thus get them. An internship in a seniors' residence perhaps? Like 7 hours of work per week in a local book shop ? Have you been elected for special positions in one of your ECs ? If not, you might want to aim for it...</p>
<p>Oh and of course, study for the SAT. (You need to take the SAT Reasoning Test as well as three SAT Subject tests) Built up your vocabulary and don't learn the crappy words you will in school. You better buy Barron's 3500 if you have stamina and spread it on let's say a year. This still means 10 words a day to REMEMBER (not to learn). Aim for 700+ on each of the sections (Critical reading, Maths, Writing) and become used to their "extravagant" likes and dislikes of certain essay types. They don't seem to like the way we structure our essays...</p>
<p>You should take the SAT R in May 2008 and the SAT IIs in June of the same year. This gives you two more shots if you fail, should you apply ED and 3 should you choose RD. Your application has time until late August 2008 when you may access the app documents online (you will be sent some but they won't reach you in time). Take the TOEFL somewhen in 2008 as well (a language trip is always something exciting to write about - I was in Australia - and it will benefit your English a lot !). Your minimum score should be 100 (though they don't have a cut-off given. If you are thinking about studying in the UK, 110 is a good thing to aim for.</p>
<p>Oh and the essays... geeez. It's a lot of fun, writing them. In fact I partly mislearned German during the application period. However, if you don't have something to write about, they are ****. As mentioned, show passion, go into some sort of EC (you don't need like 20 clubs, especially as we don't have debate clubs etc., but there should be a considerable amount anyways) or write about defining experiences (holidays etc.). They don't want a typical personal statement as we write it for applications on jobs or something. Make it interesting - you will compete with 17000+ uberintelligent applicants for less than 2000 places - you better stand out or they throw dices - you know the odds.</p>
<p>I don't want to scare you off, I don't even want to intimidate you, but you better know what you are doing. Luckily, my starting position was OK (many ECs, award, internship, excellent recs, engagement in my hs, etc.) otherwise I would not have made it even until the application.</p>
<p>It takes a lot of stamina (especially if you are late as I were...) and you have to be outstanding for at least 2 years now. My mother compared me in the beginning of December with one of the KZ victims because I had lost so much weight and my skin color was close to shiny white. I am a healthy guy and due to the extent I play tennis, my skin is pretty brown usually, but these 4 months of writing applications (you won't stop with Pton but you consider other universities as well as your odds are close to zero), taking tests and still managing everything I did before (ECs oh and my abitur of course) ripped and raped my body.</p>
<p>As an international, you receive zero support by parents/school/guidance/experience and thus work on your very own (that's at least what I experienced). It is possible - one guy from Germany just made it ED. However, at some point it will be hell (I had one week to prepare for 3 sat IIs with loads of stuff I had never learned before (like theory of relativity, thermophysics etc.) and LEARNED 17 hours a day (6 hours of school - you can imagine what the rest was about)) Your energy level should be 21489124 and at least I am really proud and satisfied with what I have achieved already (though I haven't been admitted to a single university yet).</p>
<p>You have to decide if all the pressure, the work and the hope and time are worth the chance of statistically 5 % of internationals accepted each year. Oh and before you think that you are in the top 5 % of your class: 90 % of Ptons applicants (not admitted) I guess are as well. You compete on eye level and it is a really tough fight.</p>
<p>If you ask me: Don't!</p>
<p>Life is too beautiful, parties too good to miss it all out. I didn't and I was in the happy situation to just give it a crap-shot, still, these 4 months were extremely exhausting and I probably would not try it again. Don't forget that you will spend like 1000 $ for your apps alone (plus if you should be accepted and depending on your financial situation more than 200 000 $ for your bachelor of arts).</p>
<p>Princeton is a dream university with chances and possibilities exeeding everything you could think of, but the way to the crest is twisting... In the end, it is your life. LIve it and if you are in the happy situation that everything you really liked to do assemblies to a perfect profile, go for it. I would not throw 2 years into a pot for a mediocre chance. Especially as you point out that you will move to the Kleinwalsertal soon. A change of school will make everything even more complicated and your teachers and counselor won't know you well enough to really write something specific about you. Even more, your achievements will somehow be lost in your old school and your grades are likely to drop a bit.</p>
<p>Again - I don't want to discourage you, but don't blame me if you face the first signs of tiredness. Feel free to PM me for further questions or also phillyland (the guy who was accepted). Good luck anyways and have fun!</p>
<p>^Llisten to DavidAlex, he's the man. That's what i call one great post...</p>
<p>Couldn't have said it better. If you decide to give it a shot, you have to commit yourself fully. It will be exhausting, trust me. It will be depressing. You will not sleep properly for months. Your classmates will think you're crazy. But there is a chance. If you think you can go through hell, do it. In my case it was worth it.</p>
<p>"You will not sleep properly for months."</p>
<p>So true. No proper sleep until April.</p>
<p>haha I guess this wasn't the intention philly had but might be true as well ;) </p>
<p>Am I happy that I have nerves made out of steel - waiting for decisions does not affect my babylike sleep at all :D </p>
<p>Sleep certainly is a factor... Calculate with 6 hours a day at MOST during the hot phase - but here again: I've heard that students of the top tier schools sleep not more than 4-6 hours each night (dunno whether that's a myth or true), so if you cannot stand the admission process, how the hell will you manage in college.</p>
<p>To relieve you a little bit: It is well known that getting the adcom to accept you (HYPMS) is much harder than college itself. If you are admitted, you will make it.</p>
<p>As philly said: It can be worth the hell, it is a chance and how should you be admitted if you never tried? Princeton probably is the best undergraduate university on the world... I'd love to be there... HEAR THAT ADCOMS ?! :D ;)</p>
<p>I wish someone would have told me this when I started 2 years ago. Nice post man</p>
<p>wow. how long did it take you to write that post????</p>
<p>Haha seriously DavidAlex. You are quite generous. </p>
<p>Has anybody ever noticed that the posts in the Parents' Forum are ALWAYS long? We have trouble with the 10 char limit occasionally but I think sometimes they have trouble fitting everything into a single post.</p>
<p>To GermanYalie- good luck with everything. DavidAlex is right about everything he says, but I wish the best to you if you decide to fight for it and try to attend the best school ever! Sidenote: your thread will probably eventually turn into a random discussion of something...we do that a lot on the Princeton forum. :)</p>
<p>woa!.. great post DavidAlex!!.. :D</p>
<p>thanks to all those appreciating it ;) Took like 2 minutes - I am a (heavy) fast typer (well my second post ;) ) No, took something between half an hour and an hour (don't know anymore, but turned ot to be much longer than expected).</p>
<p>I wish I would have known anything I wrote above when I started a year ago. Would have been plenty of time but that's one of the reasons I wrote it down. I made so many mistakes (mistakes I did not commit when I submitted my RD applications anymore) and honestly, I thought it would be much, I mean MUCH easier.</p>
<p>It was a great experience though, and it has certainly changed me. In the end and absolutely irrespective of the result, I have won. Whether this was worth it? I cannot tell yet. Currently I am sleeping 11 hours a day (well not anymore because school has started) just to recover and I gonna rejoin the gym (if I make it to Princeton, you girls will have something beautiful to look up and I have a perfect starting position for hooking up -yeah ;) </p>
<p>That's why I love the Penn App - they want you to submit a photo of yours, increases my chances :D</p>
<p>lol... I don't know how much that's gonna help you, because my picture was absolutely stunning, ^^... Yea looking back on my early app, I did make some weird and careless mistakes, too, lol... so where else did you apply? Did you apply to the College at Penn? If yes, I might see you there in the fall, ^^</p>
<p>
[quote]
It can be worth the hell, it is a chance and how should you be admitted if you never tried?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's the exact thing. If you never try, you'll never know ("Clocks" by Coldplay, remember? ^^). This is what I thought: I'd blame myself for the rest of my life for not having tried to get into the world's best university. So why not give it a shot?
What I had momentarily forgotten: I am a perfectionist. And perfectionists give either 100% or they don't try it at all. Everything has to be flawless. So inevitably the decision to apply brought a disastrous stress with it. But once I had begun, I had to keep going. I worked my butt of for months. Having little sleep and constant headaches, feeling like an encyclopedia (gotta love barrons) and uptight muscles 24/7 are NOT nice. But when I opened the package from Princeton with the letter, I felt relief that all of this had eventually paid off. And I'm still flying ^^</p>
<p>Haha yeah College. Didn't feel strong enough for Wharton. My other apps are Brown (dunno why in fact, completed it on january 1st with a baaaaaaad hangover and still appr. 1 promille alcohol in blood ;) and UChicago.</p>
<p>Wanted to apply to WUStL but it lacks the international recognition and doing nothing is so cool that I probably miss the January 15th deadline. Well, also applied to LSE in the UK if somebody knows it. I'm all in for economics so Penn, Chicago and LSE are reasonable choices I guess.</p>
<p>And concerning my photo: You might consider I smuggled into the picture as a hook :D Thus, it's not only me but even Mrs. Germany 2011 on it - the aos will love it ;) Hope to see you in fall - at best here in Pton but I'd take Penn as well... Gonna have to found the secret society "Former Ptonians" there (wasn't a Pton student nearly set on fire by one of Penn's secret societies ?)</p>
<p>Well anyways...again we miss the topic but who cares. Lovely waste of time...</p>
<p>Who is Mrs. Germany 2011? So if you're really into econ, why didn't you go for Wharton? I guess it's as selective as Pton, and you applied there, right? I thought about Chicago as well, but then I saw the number of int. students who applied for finaid and got in and well... it was like a 1% acceptance rate, so that kinda discouraged me, ^^... Tbh, the LSE is kinda like the Brititsh Wharton, it just produces ibankers en masse, but be warned: Most ppl there are SUPER nerdy, ^^... But anyways, I wish you best luck for the RD round, maybe we'll both even see each other at some place in the fall, :-D</p>
<p>hahah the name of this thread makes me laugh. hahaha i have nothing else to contribute.</p>
<p>beats me why penn requires applicants to submit a photo lol</p>
<p>Nice post DavidAlex! I definitely crammed in EVERYTHING in the last four months (all my testing, essays, absolutely everything) and would have really benefitted from this post. An administrator should sticky this thread, it will be really helpful for the people coming up.</p>
<p>It's so true - I can't sleep properly ever now. Aghhhh.</p>
<p>Good luck with everything, GermanYalie! And everyone else too! Everyone on the Pton board seems so nice and I hope you all get into your first choices. :)</p>
<p>Haha I feel really honored that somebody suggests to pin this thread. I did the same as you, sk12 - procrastination really is a funny habit ;) </p>
<p>@ pearfire: No, Wharton is lots and lots and lots more selective than CAS will ever be. UPenn is a great school and I still have the chance to transfer to Wharton if my GPA is high enough... The chances are low anyways, but with a 720 Math IIc, I did not feel strong enough to compete with all those 800 test takers. Dunno why, but the American Maths really hates me ;) In fact I love Mathematics and have no proplems with probabilty stuff (also called stochastics), curves, derivations whatsoever... Don'T like the triangles ;) </p>
<p>Actually I cannot imagine that LSE is more nerdish than Chicago. The last one is really creepy (I didn't apply for fin aid there out of the same reasons you mentioned - they are famous for not being generous anyways, so it probably would not have made any difference). Somehow I love to picture myself as an 80 hours/week workaholic with a social life consisting of drugs and alcohol swimming in 500 $ notes ;) Thus, I probably fit into all the ibanking stuff ;) That's another topic however. </p>
<p>I am extreme (which probably is the only chance for me to get into Pton). They (you) either love me or hate me but you are for sure not indifferent. As I stated on my application (the favourite movie line): The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success. Elliot Carver, TND</p>
<p>Nice quote! I def agree with that. So you got the whole ibanking thing goin on, huh? Well, tbh LSE is prob better for ibanking than Chicago. I kno C has an amazing econ department, BUT LSE is seriously an ibanking factory, at least if you have applied for the straight econ course... I kno ppl there who bascially just went to the LSE to get into GS or MS, ^^... Btw, how in the world r u gonna pay for C if you get in? it's like 50000 a year, r u that rich? I thought about doin the same thing, but then I realized: nah, I don't even have remotely enough money, ^^... Btw, do u feel kinda left out in Ger, college wise I mean? Why don't we have any good colleges? our schools are seriously crap, lol</p>
<p>Our universities are good, pearfire. We make good education accessible to everyone - yeah, most of them are state schools. So what? Only because we don't have that private "elite boost" like the Ivy League doesn't mean that our unis are "seriously crap". Wanna compare the average liberal education of a German citizen with that of an American? Here you don't have to pay much if you want your child to receive a good education; the state universities are affordable AND they're good. Of course they can't compete with HYP (guess why the uberachievers go study abroad), but they are by no means "crap".</p>