Germans make good engineers?

[DocT]

<p>^^ this analysis hits the mark!</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

My point is quite simple: if engineering was considered to be as socially prestigious in this country as it is in countries such as Germany and Japan, then more spending would be devoted towards engineering projects, hence increasing the demand for engineers.</p>

<p>Engineers make more in this country than in others because, frankly, every job pays better in this country than in others. A guy stocking shelves in the US makes more than a guy stocking shelves in the Third World, but that doesn’t mean that shelf-stocking is a desirable job in the US. What matters is the relative payscales within a particular country, as well as the cost of living. An engineer in India makes an average starting salary of ~$7-8k, and an exceptional one may make $24k which is obviously piddling to us, but relative to the average per-capita income of India of only ~$1000, is a whopping salary, especially given how cheap living costs are in India. The analog would be if the average US engineers made $210-240k a year, and a star engineer made $720k just to start. I guarantee you that if engineers in this country made that much, Americans would be coming out of the woodwork to become engineers.

I was referring to 1st world economies.</p>

<p>The same analogy can be made between India & Japan or India & Germany.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

The increasing social prestige of consulting and banking, and the resultant mad dash of the top graduates to enter those fields, has not seemed to have depressed the pay available in those fields. If anything, the pay has only increased - for example, the investment banking industry is set to pay record bonuses this year.

Finance, as a portion of our economy, will shrink and only continue to shrink. I’m not sure what your point is.</p>

[cyclone10]

<p>Mechanical Engineers are the highest paid professionals in Britain, but this may be due to the fact Lawyers and Doctors simply get paid less…</p>

<p>Anyway’s Germans are bad ass, I like how they take pride in what they do instead of making cheap crap that sells. They have the highest carbon steel than any other country too.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

I don’t know what kind of engineering you do but we have tons of foreigners who speak as well as any native here since they’ve been taking English since elementary school in their own countries.

LOL. That’s a good laugh.</p>

<p>Indians/Pakistani’s generally have thick accents until they move and live in the US for awhile. I am good friends with quite a few H1-B visa holders from India in their early 20’s. Their English language skills are much weaker than most natives. My roommate had lived in the US for 5 years and there were still phrases he said that I didn’t understand (from Mumbai).</p>

<p>East Asians have very bad conversational English (relatively their written English is much better).</p>

<p>The only group of non-native English speakers that have truly impressed me are Dutch/German.</p>

<p>It just comes down to time.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

Mechanical Engineers are the highest paid professionals in Britain, but this may be due to the fact Lawyers and Doctors simply get paid less…

That’s not true. Finance professionals easily make more than engineers in Britain. Within the engineering ranks ME isn’t the highest paid (it’s Petroleum engineers).</p>

[revonu11]

<p>

Indians/Pakistani’s generally have thick accents until they move and live in the US for awhile. I am good friends with quite a few H1-B visa holders from India in their early 20’s. Their English language skills are much weaker than most natives. My roommate had lived in the US for 5 years and there were still phrases he said that I didn’t understand.</p>

<p>East Asians have very bad conversational English (relatively their written English is much better).</p>

<p>The only group of non-native English speakers that have truly impressed me are Dutch/German.</p>

<p>It just comes down to time.

</p>

<p>Odd. I live a few blocks from Microsoft’s main campus and the thousands of Indian/Chinese engineers I meet mostly seem to speak English just fine. They try to rip me off a lot, but that’s just good ol’ immigrant stinginess. My forefathers were surely the same. Meanwhile, in Seattle’s Ballard neighborhood, I still meet old Scandinavian couples who can barely muster a “How much for this?”, although they’re a dying breed (literally) as suburbanite trust-fundees take over the city core.</p>

<p>Perhaps things like this come down to the individual? Nah, it’d be much easier to just generalize for the sake of it.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

Perhaps things like this come down to the individual? Nah, it’d be much easier to just generalize for the sake of it.

I’m sure you’re addressing DocT as well.</p>

[revonu11]

<p>Well of course, but your post came later, so it was the one I quoted. </p>

<p>Anecdotal evidence doesn’t hold much weight in the rugged war-torn landscape of internet forums.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

Finance, as a portion of our economy, will shrink and only continue to shrink. I’m not sure what your point is.

</p>

<p>Will it? Again, doesn’t seem to be so, given the record bonuses, and for some firms, record profits being made. </p>

<p>Besides, unfortunately, whatever decline that finance may experience, it may not match the decline that engineering has unfortunately faced, and will face for years to come. Just consider the slow-motion catastrophe of the US auto industry. </p>

<p>So I’m not sure what your point is.</p>

[sakky]

<p>

I was referring to 1st world economies.

</p>

<p>So let’s talk about them. How much are engineers paid in other developed nations?</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

Will it? Again, doesn’t seem to be so, given the record bonuses, and for some firms, record profits being made.

For some firms it’s good because they’ve swallowed their competitors. The main issue is if finance is shrinking as a portion of GDP (which I believe it has and will continue).</p>

<p>

Besides, unfortunately, whatever decline that finance may experience, it may not match the decline that engineering has unfortunately faced, and will face for years to come. Just consider the slow-motion catastrophe of the US auto industry.

The obvious answer is that finance can not exist without core value producing industries. Finance <em>must</em> shrink because they are merely a support service to things which produce value.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

So let’s talk about them. How much are engineers paid in other developed nations?

</p>

<p>[PayScale</a> United Kingdom - Petroleum Engineer Salary, Average Salaries](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Petroleum_Engineer/Salary]PayScale”>Petroleum Engineer Salary in United Kingdom in 2024 | PayScale)</p>

<p>Well, that’s less than comparable in the US.</p>

<p>[PayScale</a> United Kingdom - Mechanical Engineer Salary, Average Salaries](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Mechanical_Engineer/Salary]PayScale”>Mechanical Engineer Salary in United Kingdom in 2024 | PayScale)</p>

<p>Well, that’s less than comparable in the US.</p>

<p>[PayScale</a> Australia - Bachelor of Mechanical Engineering (BME) Degree Salary, Average Salaries by Years Experience](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Degree=Bachelor_of_Mechanical_Engineering_(BME)/Salary/by_Years_Experience]PayScale”>http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Degree=Bachelor_of_Mechanical_Engineering_(BME)/Salary/by_Years_Experience)</p>

<p>Well, that’s less than comparable in the US.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Degree=Bachelor_of_Science_(BS%2FBSc%2FSB)%2C_Mechanical_Engineering/Salary/by_Years_Experience[/url]”>http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Degree=Bachelor_of_Science_(BS%2FBSc%2FSB)%2C_Mechanical_Engineering/Salary/by_Years_Experience&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Well, that’s less than comparable in the US.</p>

<p>Just for reference.
<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Science_(BS%2FBSc%2FSB)%2C_Mechanical_Engineering/Salary/by_Years_Experience[/url]”>http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Science_(BS%2FBSc%2FSB)%2C_Mechanical_Engineering/Salary/by_Years_Experience&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[cyclone10]

<p>“Mechanical Engineering is the second highest paid profession in the UK behind medicine”
[Mechanical</a> engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Mechanical engineering - Wikipedia”>Mechanical engineering - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Mechanical Engineers work as Petrol Engineers by the way</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

“Mechanical Engineering is the second highest paid profession in the UK behind medicine”
Mechanical engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, it says citation needed.</p>

<p>

Mechanical Engineers work as Petrol Engineers by the way

Well, you learn something new every day. :)</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>Those payscale graphs also don’t really tell the whole story. Again, you have to measure it against salaries from the rest of the jobs in the UK, not just against their US counterparts. Showing that they make, on average, less than their colleagues in the US on an absolute scale says nothing about their overall prestige in their country. You have to compare what they make relative to the rest of the UK to what engineers in the US make relative to the rest of the US.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>Fair enough. Whatever your core point is, there is not a lot of difference between the US and other Anglo countries in terms of compensation. In absolute terms the US makes more. If compared as a percentage of median income, the US might a little less - but certainly not multiple factors less as sakky’s Indian comparison made it seem.</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>Compared to other “anglo” countries, no, not that much different, but compared to India, it really is like an order of magnitude different.</p>

[Mr_Payne]

<p>

Compared to other “anglo” countries, no, not that much different, but compared to India, it really is like an order of magnitude different.

Which isn’t a fault of the US obviously - as the trend is more of a trend comparing the 1st world to 3rd world. I’m not sure where sakky’s point was by bringing up India (as it doesn’t single out the US in any meaningful way).</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>Sure it does. India values engineers much more highly than the US does in comparison to other professions. That is the point he and the rest of us are making. The salaries and quality of students in India/China/Germany/[insert stereotypical smart engineering country here] are largely (if not wholly) a product of the fact that those countries put more prestige on engineering jobs, so the top students start going into engineering and staying in engineering instead of stuff like finance or ibanking or other jobs that are more prestigious to the general population here in the States.</p>