<p>Comparison of tax rates around the world is difficult and somewhat subjective as tax laws in most countries are extremely complex. However, to state that the tax burden in the UK is comparable to the US is misleading. Once you take into account VAT (20%/5%/0%) and National insurance rates, the UK tax burden increases significantly. More importantly, you also have to take into account the significant deductions available in the US tax system. My tax rate my be 30%, but I’ll end up paying far less. </p>
<p>^ roughly speaking though, it seems to me the NHS deduction is lower than what we pay here for health insurance, so they get a better deal (since even with top premiums etc, I haven’t heard of free doctors’ visits and free hospitalization, if you want/need it.)</p>
<p>“Germany’s individual tax rates range from 0% to 45%.
The USA’s individual tax rates range from 0% to 55.9% (federal + state + local).”
And how many “free riders” this tax collections are spread among in Germany vs, USA? How many other “stupidity” projects are there? Collection is only one side, the spending is another. Cannot figure out the balalnce without considering both sides, unless we have skipped this ever so difficult math class way back in the 1st grade.
However, if we go back to basics, government was invented for one function, one only - to protect citizens, not to cure them of deseases, not to provide education, not to provide housing and not to let everybody in a world to feed off the citizen’s hard labor. Nope. So, the only expense that the govenrment should have is ARMY. The only thing that our enemy understand is our MILITARY ability, nothing else, talking to the evil is a pure evilish waste of time. You got to stick a feast into the evil face, they will not listen, they do not have ears. </p>
<p>To be honest, I don’t think tuition should be free unless the student is poor. A sliding scale is appropriate in my opinion, but having the top cost at $60,000+ per year is pretty outrageous. Especially when some colleges admit that “no one” pays full tuition…</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP - I suspect that your children might not thrive in the fairly liberal environment that is found on most German campuses and pretty much throughout Germany in general. Some people believe that having an educated, employable populace is a key to economic strength.</p>
<p>The German post secondary education has stringent admission requirements to keep class sizes/costs down. It isn’t easy to get in, and Americans will typically find that their high school diploma does not meet the prerequisite requirements of most German institutions. Depending on age and work experience, American students will need to attend a one- or two-year school that gives them the equivalent of the top tier of German secondary schools in order to qualify.
Once enrolled, the experience is not unlike college here. There are dorms, but they are not free and most students choose to live off-campus. There are student unions and dining halls and much of the other things typical of student life here. There are some clubs and intramural sports, but not much. Most classes, including the basics are fairly small. The professors at my school were very accessible, and the school was even willing to subject itself to VA bureaucracy so that I could draw my G.I. Bill benefits while attending. It is true that there is limited flexibility in the various majors, but I believe that is a result of the education being very efficiently in tune with the needs of employers.
It was, and is again, free to attend. There are very few (if any) textbooks to buy, so it is indeed possible for anyone with the aptitude to obtain a degree. Most programs require a full course load, and if you fail any course more than 3 time, you’re out.</p>
<p>German universities had been tuition-free until several years ago. </p>
<p>What I’m learning so far is Germany limits the number of students admitted into college, it is very difficult to get in and to stay in once there, and the majors try to match job descriptions of employers. </p>
<p>Are these college graduates with no student loan debt an elite class, or are there tradesmen and union workers at the same economic level as them?</p>
<p>Do they have the same accessibility as we have here or is it more selective? Does the university recoup the money from the government and if so, are there any strings attached, such as whether basket weaving qualifies, and how much they get reimbursed?</p>
<p>Much more selective. Admission to college and particular major are determined by scores on the college prep high school exit exam. And students are assessed for the college prep HS or not at the end of middle school so students requiring more remediation or who are late bloomers tend to be placed on various vocational tracks or apprenticeships. </p>
<p>Highly selective majors like medicine require near perfect scores in STEM due to extreme limited number of places and a desire to ensure they minimize the chances of admitting students who will flunk out and thus, inflict the cost in lost place and finances on the German taxpayers. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that there isn’t the “all students must go to college” mentality as there is here in the US and the German education system is divided into bona-fide universities and vocationally oriented Universities of Applied Sciences. </p>
<p>The latter are much more pre-professionally oriented and one can be gainfully employed with high salaried jobs with diplomas from them. In fact, some fields like accounting can only be studied in such institutions. However, the latter institutions are regarded as having lower status/regard in some quarters of German society. </p>
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<p>Most German Universities and all the ones with highest academic prestige and founded before 1950 are public. </p>
<p>Cobrat, much appreciate your insight. So if people just take the “tuition is free” mantra from Germany and apply it to the US higher educational system as it is today, we’ll have a disaster with a blank checkbook handed out to the education industry. And if someone suggests the selectivity aspect be applied here as well, you’ll get howls even louder than we get today on how people are being kept down.</p>
<p>The German model cannot be used in the US. The educational system is a product of a culture and can’t be transplanted wholesale.
However, getting some state funding into state universities would seem like a no-brainer, on the condition it’s used to lower tuition.
Note, also, that Belgian and French universities have always been tuition-free and we don’t see American students flocking to those…</p>
<p>They certainly are. Fee community college exists. So does very cheap community college. And, fee-waivers based on income.exist, too. Not sure about rock climbing walls, though. Germany doesn’t have any college for kids determined to be vocational. That’s a lot of them., btw. </p>
<p>If you want a good example of what happens when you try free tuition, low/open admission standards, and insisting everyone go to college & graduate(minimize flunkouts), look at what happened to CCNY and CUNY after the institution of open admissions in 1969 until the late '70s. </p>
<p>End result, institution ended up being overwhelmed by un/underprepared students, topflight Profs & students voted with their feet, resources were unable to keep up, academic reputation declined, and they had to end free tuition in 1975. </p>
<p>If one wants free tuition, high graduation rates, or open admissions, there usually needs to be a serious compromise/elimination of one or more of those factors. </p>
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<p>They do. They’re called “Universities of Applied Sciences”. While they now do provide university credentials due to the EU-wide Bologna process to ensure university credentials are standardized across EU countries, their graduates/diplomas are still not regarded as on par with their bona-fide university counterparts even though they often are just as/sometimes more likely to land high paying professional jobs. </p>
<p>It’s more than that. For instance, if one wanted to study certain pre-professional fields like accounting in Germany, one must go to a University of Applied Science as accounting isn’t offered as a course at the academic universities. </p>