<p>It’s not a matter of “not making it to a University”. They’re two different paths. It depends on your major, either you go for theoretical or you go for applied. </p>
<p>Right. But do you pick or does the government pick for you? In the UK your path is determined probably by what we would call middle school. I don’t think Americans would accept this. We want to believe everyone is equal.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you ended up going to a college prep HS, but decide you wanted to study accounting or be an applied engineer, your only/best option respectively is to apply and enroll at a University of Applied Science rather than an academic university. </p>
<p>@Flossy Yes, after you complete your primary education (at 10 or 12 years of age). Based on testing, you’ll be funnel into one of several secondary schooling options, including Gymnasium (with Abitur as exit exam, qualifying for university), Fachoberschule, Realschule, etc…</p>
<p>Comparing the US vs. Germany educational systems is a rather complex matter. You simply can’t select one part to compare, you have to look at both systems in a holistic (don’t we love that word here in CC!) manner. </p>
<p>I spent 2 years at a French university; apples & oranges compared to the system and experience at a US U. Yes, it was “free” (small admin fee - currently less than 200 EUR). While admissions to many programs were “open,” they were open only to those who had passed the baccalauréat, a much higher bar than most US high school diplomas. Many programs strictly limited the number of students who could pass (regardless of number of students enrolled), so that being in the program was not at all a guarantee of graduating. Since the govt is paying, costs were kept down with spartan buildings and few student activities or amenities. There was virtually no campus life, except for a few clubs. No sporting events, no frats, no school sweatshirts, no graduation ceremonies, not even a school bookstore. On the weekends, most kids just went home, leaving the campus empty. I had a great experience, but only with eyes wide open to all of this in advance. As stated above, one can’t just cherry pick one facet of an international university and wish it on the US system because a lot of other things come with it.</p>
<p>Yes. It’s a silly comparison, except that everyone IS recieving a useful education for free. So, you will be funneled at 12 years old and you will not be allowed to go to University if your test scores don’t work for them, but you will not be forced, either, to attempt a college degree or work at McDonalds. There are real career tracks laid down for the kids who aren’t academically gifted, and this is also a good thing. The thinking in the US is you either have to go to college or have a severely limited financial upside in life. In Germany, you can have an unlimited upside, but you may not have an academic degree. I think this system would be great, but only if it was the WHOLE system. I can’t see it at this point, here. We have this mindset of college or bust, even if the college isn’t particularly educational.</p>
<p>It took decades to enact free, universal, public elementary-secondary education in this country (against the wishes of many nay-sayers). Horace Mann was heavily influenced by German models … but today, our public school system is an American system, not a German system. Our system of graduate education also was influenced heavily by 19th century German models … but today, our research university system is American, not German.</p>
<p>If Americans ever decide we want to make low-cost higher education a priority, we would not have to accept every other feature of European systems. Between the FDR and Reagan eras, thousands of Americans got public university educations at very low cost with the help of the GI Bill or other forms of public financing (direct or indirect). What they got was red blooded American education.</p>
<p><a href=“Horace Mann - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Mann</a></p>
<p>CA already has a low-cost public education. It’s free for those families making less than $80k, and the CalState Us are about $6k per year for the full payers. </p>
<p>To say that the education system in Germany is worse than in then US ist just a joke. We moved to the US right before my daughter started 9th grade. Her HS gave here credits for three years of french, and a bunch of math classes, so she started with Precalculus in 9th grade.
In Germany she had a mixture of A and B grades and was still top of her class. Here she has straight As, is top of her class, even in her english classes she is best in her class - and english is a foreign language to her.</p>
<p>The reason you have only classes in your major in college is just, that by the time you are done with regular school, you already finished in history, foreign language etc.</p>
<p>In Germany you don’t have to go to college for nursing, business administration, etc. You find an employer that will hire you as an apprentice and work for that employer three days per week and you go to school two days a week. The employer will pay you for those three years. So instead of paying thousands of dollars for college you can actually make a living while you are still in school.</p>
<p>You also have to keep in mind that in Germany you don’t have to go to college to finally be able to go out and party. Drinking beer and wine is allowed when you are 16. anything else when you are 18. When I started attenting a University at the age of 18, I was concentrated on school, not on drinking.</p>
<p>I am not saying Germany’s or Europe’s educational system are perfect or better than here, but it is sure not worse. </p>
<p>And believe me, living in the US is far more expensive than it is in Germany. the only thing less expensive is gas. She cost of insurances is insane, groceries cost a fortune. Health insurance I don’t even want to talk about. </p>
<p>Saying that taxes in Germany are higher is just not true. Income taxes might be higher, but you got health, retirement and unemployment insurance included. In germany I paid maybe $ 400 property taxes, here I pay thousands.</p>
<p>I don’t want to offend anybody, but I wish people would stop thinking that the US are the Holy Grail and ever other country is underdeveloped, undereducated and communist and my favourite predjudice: not as free as the US.</p>
<p>I love living here, but I also loved living in Germany. both countries have good and bad sides,</p>
<p>did someone say the system is germany is worse? I see people discussing the fact that it is extremely different. Different isn’t worse or better, just different.</p>
<p>As for the idea that we could have a free post secondary education system? Sure. Maybe. But until we stop being the free military for the rest of the world, that’s just not going to happen. You have to choose. One of the main reasons these other countries can support these social investments is because they spend so much less on military action and development than we do.</p>
<p>I don’t mean that as a political comment, just a statement of fact. </p>
<p>Something being “expensive” or not, is relative to your net income, isn’t it? How did that compare for you, anitram? I agree with your comment about freedom. We have way too many laws. </p>
<p>Germany is half the size of Texas. Do you really want to compare millitary costs? Lately they fought in pretty much every war alongside the US.
Like I said before, I didn’t want to offend anyone. just wanted to write how living in Germany really is.</p>
<p>Our income in the US is pretty much the same as it was in Germany. We were living good in Germany, lots of travel, buying expensive stuff without having to think about it. Here we are just getting by I guess. </p>
<p><a href=“5 Countries With the Highest Military Expenditure | HuffPost The World Post”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>
</p>
<p>@anitram I can easily compare military costs. But it’s not an argument. Just that if this is how we choose to spend our money, we can’t have the other things as well, unfortunately.</p>
<p>The graphics in this one are good. They are very illustrative.</p>
<p><a href=“Military might”>http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/04/daily-chart-9</a></p>
<p>@poetgrl thanks for that. I had no idea how much the US really spend per capita.</p>
<p>US military spending is an investment, the returns are greater political power (translates into access to markets and enforcement of contracts), greater spinoff military sales, and effectively a subsidy of civilian R&D to make other profitable technologies, from aviation to communication. Anytime anyone ‘protects’ you for free, there is a hidden cost … </p>
<p>The return on this is pretty questionable for the “average” American who now faces the off shoring of their jobs. There is no question that the politically connected and the global national corporations, many of whom are currently practicing inversion so as to no longer be US based, benefit tremendously at the profit level. I can’t discuss this further without getting political. I have mixed feelings on this, and will leave it at that.</p>
<p>As someone who works in both the US public and German higher ed systems I can tell you German colleges are pretty good and compare well to American schools for undergraduate education. The elimination of tuition is going along with the implementation of the Bologna reforms which make higher education more accessible throughout Europe. A student graduates with a decent education and has spent as much as the cost of a small used car. There are very few private colleges too. It’s a very egalitarian system. It’s also opening up to older students and those who don’t have an abitur.</p>
<p>Now keep in mind this was very much the American system prior to the Reagan attacks on the University of California systems when he was governor and the collapse of the funding for the City University of New York during the 1975 fiscal crisis. Public higher education funding is down nationwide about 24% and the shift of funds from institutional support to grants, and even worse, loans, has impoverished public higher education and enriched private for profit schools that really are just thieves. It isn’t working at all. Were we to properly support public institutions we’d be doing not only the next generation a favor but the overall economy as well. </p>
<p>Have you been to many public university campuses lately? All of the ones I visited are really nice; not impoverished looking at all.</p>