Getting a D in Calc BC for Princeton

Applying to College
21

She is a physics major(ironically getting an A+ in AP physics C/Mechanics) so this will unfortunately be significant.

22

She also qualified for AIME each year so this is an utter surprise.

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23

I would really call. We are all guessing. I would get with your counselor. I don’t think anonymity matters because when it happens it happens. You can’t hide. You need to find out. C or D and what’s the difference on enrolling.

There’s probably an acceptance you have where this won’t matter. But you need to see how Princeton and other top choices will handle it.

And if it’s not good at all your acceptances maybe find another still taking apps that would be good - like Arizona, very solid in Physics.

I wish you lock and hope it all works out.

Life is long and filled with minor bumps. This is just one and it will be overcome.

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24

Just asking, is it possible something is going on? A student with those academic credentials shouldnt have any problem with BC calculus. I would worry about what iscausing this. An AIME qualifier and A plus in calculus-based physics should be fine in BC.

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25

I agree – I am wondering why this huge discrepancy. Is the teacher terrible – or just writes really awful tests (I had a wonderful teacher once but they wrote terrible tests). Is there someone in class that is making her especially anxious?

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26

I agree that something is amiss. Was she under a lot of pressure before? Could she suffer from a burnout?

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27

I’m going to opine that the reason should be explored
but the outcome needs to be understood.

So


  1. Talk to the school counselor, and the teacher.

  2. Call Princeton and ask what the implications of a D for the final semester
with a potential B- to C for the year is. You need to have this info


  3. Help figure out why this course (for a seemingly very strong student) is so problematic.

Did your kid already commit to attending Princeton?

I’m not sure there is anything else for advice.

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28

yes, she committed as soon as early action came out

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29

Does she have any other affordable acceptances that have not been declined? Has she talked about how to handle communication with Princeton with her HS GC?

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30

Agree with all this especially advice of speaking with the teacher. She needs to be at extra help every session, after explaining to the teacher the impact of a D grade. Asking for extra credit work, etc is a good idea also. Most teachers will do all they can to help a student who is trying to help themselves.

The resources you list are a great idea but tutor also sounds like a poor fit. I would find another. I have heard good things about Wyzant for online tutoring. May need tutoring more than once a week. Calc builds on prior knowledge so figuring out what she doesn’t understand is the first step. Teacher may also be a good resource for this.

Agree that a D may well result in a revocation of acceptance which should be a pull out all the stops situation, with a plan B if that happens.

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31

We withdrew all other applications after she committed, and her GC claims she won’t have to worry since the final grade includes the A

32

And just to confirm the final transcript will show an A for first semester, then the second semester grade (D+ right now), and then one grade for the full year (the average of the two semesters/the actual year’s average), let’s say B- or C+?

33

I wouldn’t trust the GCs opinion on this. I would have her call and ask admissions. Their acceptance letter seems to specifically address your situation of a drop between January and June, which is different from many schools who mention “final grades”. Her final grades will likely be fine but the drop off, which will be obvious on the transcript, is a concern. How familiar is the GC with Princeton admissions?

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34

In my opinion this is a situation where it’s appropriate to step up parent involvement. Something is amiss, and it may not be solved without face to face parent interaction with school staff. The AIME qualifications are outside corroboration of this student’s abilities so “easy” teacher / “hard” teacher doesn’t sound like a straightforward explanation
 it could be that the calc bc is a “poor” teacher or that there is an outside factor in that class that is a mental distraction to your daughter.

Can you request an old exam and have her take it in another environment but under timed test conditions?

Edit: I just read the posts about the semester grades and year grades showing on the transcript. I would make an anonymous call to admissions and ask about that specific scenario.

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35

Is the ‘her’ the D? I agree with that, also ok for a parent to call anonymously. Since the GC seems to have their mind made up, I probably wouldn’t have them call, unless the D has a good relationship with the GC and the GC is willing to be open minded.

36

yes

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37

A D is just a no-no, period. Try to arrange communication with the office as the other commenters have mentioned.

38

I think this makes sense and it will at least let your daughter know what (if any) her options are. The college is going to eventually get the transcript and to be honest, I don’t think a C for a semester looks much better to highly selective schools. So you run the risk of questions by Princeton even if she pulls the semester grade up to a C. On the other hand, in my experience, colleges don’t want to rescind offers. Their biggest concern is if they worry the discrepancy means the student misrepresented their grades/skills on the application or they are slacking or choosing a senior spring over continuing to work hard.

Princeton would not have admitted your child if they did not want her. Sure they have kids on their waiting list, but they’d rather have her (the kid whom they admitted EA) than go to a different kid.

I do know several students who have come close to having their offers rescinded due to low grades in the second semester (but the only ones that I know that actually lost their spots had non-academic or ethical transgressions). In the solely academic cases, the student had to appeal to keep their seat including having their high school and the teacher(s) of the classes with the low grade write a letter on their behalf. But the appeals did work out and they retained their seat in the end.

At the same time, in these academic cases, the student had gone from being a nearly straight A student to earning multiple B and B- grades. I’m not even sure that there were Cs on their final transcript. Instead, the concern seemed to be with a pattern of several low(er) grades, which pointed to kids who stopped working after admittance and so these were actually different scenario than a kid who continued to work very hard yet struggled in a single course.

39

It is not too late to turn around that D.

If the tutoring isn’t working, find a different tutor.

I’ve posted before about my math-phobe youth and my educational travails- and it took a remedial course prior to grad school (I was accepted into a highly rated MBA program and was then told I needed to pass Calculus with a B or better before I could start) to get me over the hump.

The professor-- probably the first great math instructor I ever had- was an adjunct at the B-school, but his training/day job was remedial math at a community college. So unlike the OP’s D who is being taught by a teacher used to teaching advanced math HS kids, a remedial instructor has honed his/her skills teaching “dummy math” (which is what it was called back in my day).

A tutor experienced in “dummy math” can help your D (who is NOT a math-phobe) get a B on her final exam which is all she’ll need to make this entire episode go away.

Who knew I loved calculus after spending most of my education avoiding anything having to do with math? A skilled instructor in “dummy math”, that’s who!!!

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40

I may be a Pollyanna, but I do not believe that Princeton wants to rescind an offer of admission to someone who must be an otherwise stellar applicant outside of two test scores. If this student has all As in every other course, and had an A in Calc BC the first semester, this isn’t a case of senioritis or even an indication of a massive deficiency in the potential of this student. Assuming that these things are true, and it is also true that there have only been two tests thus far to constitute the student’s grade, I would be proactive. Although Princeton wants to avoid rescissions, they certainly could rescind the offer and acting now will at least communicate that you understand the gravity of the situation.

I agree with those that said this is a reasonable time for parental involvement. From your posts, your daughter isn’t a student who is sliding through without effort or one who needs to be taught such a monumental lesson. The gap between what others are suggesting, Princeton to community college/reapplying elsewhere is wide
for 2-4 tests! The amount of emotional anguish that could cause her and the entire family is huge. Again, this isn’t a kid who is goofing off or acting out, as far as you have said. To date, it is one concept and 2 tests.

I’m sure others will critique and modify, but in your shoes I would have her set up a meeting with the teacher and with the guidance counselor immediately. I would want to be present for both. From the teacher, I would ask her to explain to your daughter what seems to be the gap in her understanding of the course material. It is very reasonable to ask a teacher to do so. I would also ask for any study plans, additional homework, additional instruction, tutoring, or other resources that would help. This is also a good opportunity for you to hear from the teacher if something else is contributing to her grade slide.

I would want to speak to Princeton admissions WITH the guidance counselor. If you or your daughter calls, now or after the fact, it could sound like excuses. If you call with the guidance counselor and she corroborates that there have only been two tests, that the semester grade considers nothing else, that your daughter has been otherwise engaged and excelling, it will go farther.

At that point, you will have a better idea of what needs to happen and what the goals have to be in order to keep the offer of admission. Yes, some of these admission decisions are made on razor thin margins but that doesn’t mean that Princeton wants to abandon this student at the first sign of imperfection in a grade. If her application was compelling enough for REA at Princeton, they are invested in her and will want to see her succeed.

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