Regarding correcting the GC, one has to tread a bit gently if you still have kids in the pipeline in high school. GCs have a lot of sway, and can reduce or improve your kids’ odds of admission.
We have an aquaintance with a high school freshman, a super nice BWRK, but not a superstar. She mentioned that his dream school is Stanford. She seems to understand it’s selective, but I’m not sure she’s aware just how selective and what kinds of rockstars get in. Her older kids are at solid mid-tier colleges and are paying their own way as she and her husband don’t believe in contributing one penny toward their tuition. That’s a family decision that I won’t judge, but what surprises me is that she doesn’t seem to realize that if by some miracle her kid does get into Stanford, he is going to have to take on massive debt to afford it. In other words, as the OP says, just because you get in, doesn’t mean you’ll get a merit scholarship, and this is especially true at lottery schools.
I was so astonished by the conversation that I didn’t get a word in edgewise, but I’m trying to think of what to say and how to say it when I see her again.
Her kid can’t take on massive debt to afford it. Her kid can take on the Federal limits- and your friend and her husband- if they choose- can take on additional loans. Nobody is lending an 18 year old kid a quarter of a million dollars even to attend Stanford.
Ah, that’s true. I had forgotten that. Then I don’t know how he would be able to afford it, because their philosophy is that their kids are on their own financially for college. They are solidly middle class, and by the time he graduates high school, the siblings will have graduated from college, so I doubt he would get enough need based aid.
I’d just say that it would be great if he gets into Stanford, given the low acceptance rates, and ask, “Does he have match & safety schools he is excited about, too?” That is really all you can do…
The 2 kids in college is the reason the calculators are looking generous.
Just be aware that after they have graduated your “need” will go down dramatically and all the FA will probably vanish.
Also, IF your are self employed, the calculators are way off, especially at Profile schools.
My kids understood when I said, “No college is a dream school unless we can afford it.” (But i guess the point is, I did say it.) They weren’t going for merit, but the idea applies. Most kids can’t even articulate what makes some college a dream, anyway. Or they do it superficially.
@NJFL123 you have to ask for better from the GC precisely because you have another child that will have that GC. Try to do it tactfully but you have been patient long enough.
I didn’t. My experience in our school system is that some teachers and administrators can be very vindictive, even over things that most would find completely innocuous or things that are said nicely with the best of intentions. Until my last child has graduated, I will keep my mouth shut.
At D2’s small high school there was an exceptional college counselor who was highly knowledgeable about both fit and finances. She ran annual FA workshops and invited parents of sophomores and juniors to attend. Sadly, she didn’t get many takers. Part of that was because many of the kids from that school started at CCs. For the other parents? No idea.
At D1’s magnet school there was a really knowledgeable college counselor who didn’t ask about finances at all. But the students all applied to a wide variety of schools, and everyone had UCs on their list, so by and large no one ended up shut out of affordable options.
There were no NPCs when D1 went through the cycle. It’s so much easier now to ask folks if they’ve run an NPC, instead of using the old rule of thumb of expecting your EFC to be 25-33% of your household income. I can remember the first time that I ran the FAFSA estimator back when D1 was in 8th grade; I thought “surely this is for the entire four years?” So I totally get how folks are in denial.
It’s probably late for you but for others.
We filled out FAFSA and it helped.
My D got the Trustee Scholarship to Purdue, $16K each year for 4 years.
Her freshman year, our EFC was $20K. Purdue gave her another $9 = $25K + outside scholarship for $4K = total $29K
Her sophomore year, with 2 in college, our EFC was $10K. No outside scholarship but Purdue gave her $16K + 16K = total 32K.
Better let the kid know before 12th grade that he should be looking for full ride merit scholarships and that non-contribution from high income parents will make Stanford unrealistic from a financial standpoint. Also let him know before 11th grade to aim high on the 11th grade PSAT for National Merit, which opens up more merit scholarship possibilities.
@fire123, Purdue was exceptionally generous to my OOS son, as well. He got the 10K a year scholarship and then another 10K of need-based aid. I can’t remember the other thing he got, but all total, the billed amount would have been 7K a year. Our EFC was $4500, so it was close. And my son had a 6K a year outside scholarship, so if he had attended, I think Purdue would have been extremely affordable.
I’ve lived most of my life outside the US (didn’t attend college in US) and my D was homeschooled abroad and I hadn’t discovered CC so I was ignorant about the fine details of scholarships and financial aid from US universities. We had saved some for college but nothing compared to total COA especially since she wouldn’t get in-state tuition rates.
Also, I had misconceptions from the research I’d done, which led me to believe that the schools with the largest endowments were the ones most likely to give scholarships and that big state schools didn’t give scholarships. My D and I also went by the test score averages to see what schools she was likely to get into.
Based on that, 7 out of her 9 applications were to top-20 schools (with large endowments, Stanford, Princeton, Chicago, Penn, etc.), since her scores/grades were above the average for all those schools and we figured they’d be likely to be generous. (Her dream destinations were Stanford and Chicago, she also liked Cornell and Rice.) She didn’t get accepted to any of them (waitlisted by 3, Chicago, Cornell and Rice). Luckily she got accepted to her last school (RPI) with a $55K/year scholarship covering full tuition + some of room/board, putting it within our budget ($10K/year). It’s a great school and she’s very happy there–in fact, even if she had been accepted to other schools (other than Stanford, Chicago or Rice, she most likely wouldn’t not have chosen them over RPI). I feel so lucky that it worked out well despite my misconceptions. I’ll definitely be better informed for the next one!
What I learned:
- having above average test scores for a top school (meaning above their average admitted student) doesn’t mean you have a chance of getting in
- large public schools will give scholarships to attract OOS students with high scores (or will give them in-state tuition rates) (my D didn’t apply to any of these because we didn’t know that)
- if you have high scores, it’s important to apply to more schools that are a “match/safety” increases your chances of scholarships, rather than so many “reaches” which even if you’re admitted you probably won’t get merit or be able to attend
“large public schools will give scholarships to attract OOS students with high scores (or will give them in-state tuition rates”
not true- that sort of thing happens with very FEW public colleges and is rare.
MOST Public schools DONT have the $$ to throw at OOS student, no matter how outstanding they are - in fact, most charge OOS students much more than they do in state applicants.
The UC system is an example.
^I think a lot of us would like do-overs on the college search for our first kid! Like you, we lucked out and it worked out great, but it was more luck than planning… D2 definitely got the benefit of being the second kid through the process.
I do not think it is rare to get merit money from large OOS public schools. My daughter got very large merit awards from 4 out of 5 OOS public schools. The 5th school did not give her merit but it meets full need.
College Financial Planning seminar follow-up
So the PTA billed this presentation as 'find money for colleges you never thought you could afford" and also put in a plug that he would teach you the secret to free college money.
I felt deep sorrow for the parents who were there who truly thought this. There were many parents of juniors who were there who thought this would be the answer to their problems. These are good parents of solid B, sometimes A great kids who are active with some ECs. These parents have little to no money saved (trust me, I’ve known them for 15 years and they have told me this).
There were a few parents who have high scoring, high stat kids who I know for a fact are shooting for the Ivies and I’ve secretly been curious as to how they are going to foot the monstrous bill (these are upper middle class families with a high EFC). I’ve actually heard their kids talk on and off through the years. The kids have somehow believed they will get rewarded with a “full ride” to these schools because “I know of kids who have gotten full rides.” What they did not realize is the kids with the full rides received a need-based full ride. These parents I’m guessing probably have about 40-60K saved…a great start but not enough for the big beautiful campuses their kids are dreaming of.
The ones I KNOW who have enough saved were not there! Go figure!
What he presented was pretty much a plan that should start freshman year: Grades matter, test scores matter in the equation for college money…but not at all schools. Lots of great schools are not known for generous aid.
For parents of juniors: run the NPCs for your kids prospective schools, realize there is a limit to what your kid can borrow in his name, realize there are many affordable options in our back yard (10K a year to a state uni branch school here in town vs. 60K to the well known private school up the road). Be realistic. Don’t be stupid and borrow a munch of money…that’s not a plan. He actually laid out what the monthly payment would be for parents who took out a bunch of PLUS loans. Realistic!
I was waiting for him to teach parents how to dig at the schools that give merit money; how to look at the CDS and align your kids test scores, etc. etc. but that never happened.
Then he gave his hourly consultation rate. Some parents looked around with their mouth open and walked out.
All in all I was pleasantly surprised that he was brutally honest and was not encouraging mega borrowing. A few of my sophomore parents looked flabbergasted as to what to do next. So I’m sending them a few CC links lol!
I believe that all parents of high school juniors (at the latest) should be required to join College Confidential!
Much better advice than any of these seminars.
Northeastern University announced its Scholars ((full tuition plus) decisions last night. Those who posted on CC were thrilled. Yet this program only has a 50% yield. While some may get comparable offers from peer institutions or come from wealthy families, that still leaves a lot of free money on the table.
@TomSrOfBoston …YES! But some people don’t want to dig. They want someone to just tell them what to do.