<p>First off, let me just go ahead and say that I'm a senior in high school so my ignorance regarding such matters as law school may be downright abominable, so I apologize.</p>
<p>I've heard conflicting information about admission into t-14 law schools in that some sources explain that the prestige of your UG school do not matter; that your law school application primarily consists of your GPA+LSAT+extracurricular involvement. In theory you could go to a third or fourth tier UG school and graduate at the top of your class with a stellar LSAT and some significant internships under your belt and earn yourself a spot at Harvard Law. </p>
<p>However; I've also read that prestige DOES matter and that the majority of spots earned at top law schools are by students who went to similarly ranked undergraduate schools. It implies that getting into a top law school is next to impossible if the name of your under grad alma mater isn't particularly impressive/renowned.</p>
<p>I was wondering as to which was more likely to be the case - I've always had law school aspirations but find that in an effort to prevent myself from amassing huge amounts of debt as an undergrad only to exacerbate it with law school loans, I need to choose my local state U on a full ride rather than pricier tier one private options. I wanted to know if the name of the school had much influence on where you ending up going for law school. </p>
<p>name of the school has a minor – MINOR – impact, at best. A high GPA-high LSAT combo trumps all. </p>
<p>btw: one reason why Harvard Law has a lot of Ivy (and their ilk) students, is bcos they are all excellent test takers; by definition, Ivy undergrads only admit top testers. Thus, they should do well on the LSAT, on average. But a 174 from Brown is only marginally better than a 174 from Podunk Univ (assuming the same GPA).</p>
<p>The intangibles in an application barely affect admissions to T14 schools. Check LSN and you’ll find a huge amount of successful applicants (to T14 law schools) from state uni’s with high GPA’s/LSAT’s. </p>
<p>If I still had the literature I’d quote it, but after a visit to UMD College Park and a meeting with the law school advisor for undergraduate students, it was clearly evident that prestige of school didn’t matter. He showed me a huge amount of acceptances to Harvard, Columbia, Yale, NYU, U of C, etc. from UMD based off of GPA and LSAT. </p>
<p>If the numbers are there, the acceptances’ll follow.</p>
<p>Whatever you’ve heard is true. If you look at statistics, Harvard Law School’s biggest intake is Harvard undergrads or grads, or similar big named schools. That however does not mean that a University of South Dakota grad has no chances of making it into a top law school. His/her chances are however slim.
Your undergrad school’s name matters because the more known it is, it is likely to have a rigorous curriculum and grading system. In short, the assumption is earning an A in a known school is harder than earning an A in a less known school. So your gpa and from where you’be graduated matters.
LSAT is a different story altogether. Your LSAT score has nothing to do with your undergrad school. Therefore it is more of an independent indicator then your gpa.
So if you live in Virginia, for example, your aim should be to get into UVA, which is both prestigious and relatively cheap. Graduate with an impressive gpa and score high on LSAT. You should be able to get into a top law school.
Hope it helped. </p>
<p>I think bluebayou’s point above nails it. Students get into ultra-selective undergrad institutions because they test well and perform well in class. That’s an important reason why so many are later admitted to T14 law schools. If you’re a 3.8-plus student at Podunk U with a 170-plus LSAT score, you won’t be at a disadvantage in T14 admissions. </p>
<p>Correlation does not equal causation: AP Stats.</p>
<p>Again, Harvard College (undergrad) selects out poor test takers. As does all Ivies and top LACs. They just will not admit any poor test takers. So, of course, on average, such highly selective undergrads will have more admitted to HLS than those for South Dakota, which has a much, much lower testing threshold for undergrad admissions. (Of course, this ignores the cost factor – Harvard College students tend to be wealthy so they can afford a pricey grad school, and it ignores geographic interest.)</p>
<p>But the fact is that a 3.8 from UVa will not be perceived any more highly at most of the T14 than a 3.8 from George Mason or Mary Washington.</p>
<p>This is complete nonsense. Law schools have to report your GPA/LSAT to USNWR, not your undergrad institution. That’s why they care about your GPA and LSAT and not your undergrad name. They do not balance for allegedly “harder” schools or majors or life stories because they do not care. Consumers (students) are astonishingly sensitive to USNWR rank. They’re not sensitive to the majors/life stories/undergrad names of their fellow prospective students.</p>
<p>@bluebayou - Is it something that requires years of preparation or more along the lines of a few months; I was wondering as to when most people begin preparing for it. </p>
<p>It is worth remembering that college is more than spending four years to attain a good GPA for law school admission. Your mentors and peers at school will play a large role in how you come to view issues on many fronts. Thought leaders are more often than not found in leading universities and colleges. It should also be pointed out that financial aids from elite institutions do not involve loans and will meet full need. Thus, graduates of these institutions are not usually burdened with debts. </p>
<p>It is unwise to lump admission to T14 with generalized views. While the entering classes of Yale and Harvard share similar GPA’s and LSAT scores, only a small percentage of students at Harvard Law were also admitted to Yale. The same is true comparing Harvard to Columbia Law. </p>
<p>Best wishes for your coming college years and beyond. </p>
ik this thread has been inactive for a long time, but i am also wondering the same thing in regards to getting into a good law school. i just graduated from high school and am going to an ivy next year. i’m making my fall schedule and i have a lot of class options that allow either pass/fail or graded. if law school admissions is really a numbers game, should i just take more pass/fail classes if i’m not confident in whether or not i’d pull off that A? or will law schools care about transcripts, and whether or not i took easy classes?
If you’re not sure that you’ll get an A, take pass/fail but take only 1 pass/fail class per year at most–meaning that you should take classes that you’re sure to get an A in. To get a strong recommendation letter, you will need to take enough serious classes with the recommender to give the person a strong image of you.
So: take hard classes in a major that you’re good at (so you’ll get As no matter how hard they are), or hard classes in whatever field you plan to get recommendation letters from, but otherwise take things that you’ll get As even if it is an easier class. Do not take pass/fail except in unusual circumstances, and not more than 1 per year
Of the 2 pass/fail classes that I took in college, one was public speaking (I would have gotten a B) and one was a history class that I thought that I’d bomb. I ended up getting the only A in the class, out of 30 people. So basically if you’re at a level where you’re getting nearly all As–which is where you should be in order to head to a top law school- you’ll have a study system down that will result in sterling grades no matter what the class is, so pass/fail shouldn’t really be much of a concern.
@stephli: Law schools will probably never ever see your transcripts. They get a grade report from LSAC and what the care about is the cumulative GPA. Some employers request undergrad transcripts, so I wouldn’t go too crazy with the P/F classes, but you shouldn’t be concerned about taking a few. No one cares about your recommendation letters.
College is also a really good time to do some interning in law offices. The practice of law often differs significantly from what most expect and you don’t want to learn that only after law school.
@stephli: Law schools will probably never ever see your transcripts. They get a grade report from LSAC and what they care about is the cumulative GPA. Some employers request undergrad transcripts, so I wouldn’t go too crazy with the P/F classes, but you shouldn’t be concerned about taking a few. No one cares about your recommendation letters.
College is also a really good time to do some interning in law offices. The practice of law often differs significantly from what most expect and you don’t want to learn that only after law school.
@stephli, I have blocked Demosthenes49 but if the two posts above are, “all that matters is your GPA/LSAT combination so take the easiest classes possible”, that’s not the full story of law school admissions. GPA/LSAT numbers are the most important things, so you’ll need to have a very high GPA, but recommendation letters and other factors do matter somewhat, although they’re far down the list.
If you get a 4.0 GPA in basketweaving and have recommendation letters saying, “this student is lazy and did not challenge herself and is not cut out for law school”, you won’t get in. If you get a 3.9 GPA in a reasonably challenging major and recommendations saying, “this was the best student I’ve had in 15 years and she’ll be an amazing law student”, you’ll get in.
The advice above is from a close family member who was a college’s advisor for grad school admissions (including law schools) and who was active with grad school admissions nationally and heavily involved with grad school admissions organizations and was told by a grad school’s admissions office (which the relative worked with closely) that candidates with stellar grades and test scores could be–and were-- rejected based on bad recommendation letters and bad performances during interviews. The relative told me that one guy who had near-perfect test scores and a near-4.0 from an Ivy was rejected because he put his feet on the table during the interview, for example.
You should be getting nearly all As, period, regardless of what you take. When I was in college, once I got the gist of studying (which took 2 semesters), I just used my regular study methods and had a 4.0 every semester thereafter. So should you.
Pass/fail grades DO appear on LSAC report. See the bottom of the page available through the link, under “Unconverted Credits”.
If there are 2 candidates, one with a 3.9 in 40 graded classes, and one with a 3.9 in 20 graded classes, and 20 pass/fails showing up on the LSAC report, which one will law schools accept if a choice is required? The first, not the second.
Somehow I don’t believe post #16. Potential law school candidate who has 4.0 could be that dumb? I know he has me blocked also. So I can say whatever I want to say right. Let’s test it.
@DrGoogle: Yes, his premise is totally absurd. It’s also basically never the case that 2 near-perfect applicants are competing for only one chair. The school would just admit both. Adding seats to a law school class is incredibly easy, one of the reasons law schools are such great money makers for their parent institutions.