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<p>He was the marketing manager of a printing company; when he and everyone else was fired, he got a job as an insurance salesman. He couldn’t stand it; he was being told to deceive potential customers. He got a job instead in a furniture store, and was enjoying it because he did it well - as in, you may as well do anything as well as you can. Then he got cancer and died a year and a half ago. Thanks for asking.</p>
<p>I am truly sorry to hear about your father, deprofundis. I don’t know if it will help, but I was diagnosed myself with pseudomyxoma peritonei, a rare abdominal cancer which is treatable but not curable, in 2006. It makes me sort of carpe diem in focus. Also, back in 2000 I lost a job because the company owner expected me to lie on the books. Honesty cost my position, so I have some knowledge on that score.</p>
<p>MBA Grad 2009 - I am moved that you would post this. I don’t quite know what to say, except that you never know what might happen. I understand about the carpe diem - do you know the Walter de la Mare lines: “Look thy last on all things lovely every hour” ? And it’s brilliant about the MBA.
We have a lot of hoo-ha in England at the moment because of MPs charging ineligible expenses to the public purse. It’s interesting that representatives of the people seem to have less moral probity than those they represent.
Isn’t this so much nicer than arguing with ROF?</p>
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<p>Exactly. Your father is the exception. You are not. You are the typical 2nd generation kid of immigrant parents who has had everything handed to him because his parents never wanted him to experience the hardship that they had growing up. You have had education provided to you (and shoved down your throat). You have been told that the Ivies and (since you probably didn’t get into HYPSD), to a lesser extent, Duke are the only schools worth attending, and you are a loser if you don’t get into one of them. Etc. Etc.</p>
<p>I read threads like this on CC all the time… The only difference with this thread is that either you are so detatched from reality that you actually believe the crap you are spewing, or you are just being a ■■■■■ and flaming on CC as a way to make the summer go by.</p>
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<p>No worries, medicine moves fast at times. In my case the bad news is the tumors never leave but as long as they each stay below 2 cm there’s little chance they will metastasize. Of course there’s no guarantee, but I’m lucky to live in a town with MD Anderson right here, and my wife has been a great help. The first oncologist was a git but once I got to MDA things have gone rather smoothly, not counting the joys of needles, IVs, and the various places they put barium to have a look. I’ve just had one surgery and may not need another - how’s this for strange: I ruptured my appendix with a kidney stone, and in taking out the appendix they found the tumors. They’d have never found them until it was too late, except for busting the appendix. As a result, they caught it very early and started treatment as soon as I found a doctor with a clue. The tumors have been treated with drugs to keep them from growing and it seems that simple - as long as they don’t grow, they don’t go aggressive. </p>
<p>Thanks about the MBA, but that’s the easy part, the management classes especially. Taxation and FAR will kick my butt until I’ve all but memorized the data. I started with the Gleim texts and flashcards from Becker. </p>
<p>I also like Edna St. Vincent Millay on that topic: </p>
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<p>Our friend ROF seems to have taken the hint and done a bunk. Better than bickering, but I would prefer that he could have learned from us.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>ag54,</p>
<p>What in the world is HYPSD? I think state schools are perfectly fine. I almost went to one in fact, but it wasn’t considerably cheaper than the private schools I was admitted to.</p>
<p>What are you trying to argue? In the end, I understand the value of an education while many people in America do not while the importance of going to college is shoved down their throats on a daily basis.</p>
<p>I’m not talking necessarily about drug-ravished families in inner cities. I’m talking about the kids who I grew up and who went to the same school system I did that decided not to pursue higher education, went to local community colleges or dropped out of college due to their incompetence and lack of ambition.</p>
<p>I’m sure many of these individuals will end up as low-level employees like janitors at my school system or other ones in the same area. They do not deserve praise or admiration for wasting lemons instead of turning them into lemonade.</p>
<p>I urge you all to grow up and stop throwing this political correctness BS in order to make it seem that everyone in this country is a superstar. There are millions of people who are leading underwhelming lives because they didn’t take advantage of the resources they had around them.</p>
<p>Ah, I wrote too soon. ROF, I feel it is my responsibility to remind you that there are many fine decaffeinated brands on the market, just as tasty as the real thing.</p>
<p>… Annnnnnnnnnnnnd if you could be so kind, could you make just a smidgen of an effort to reply in context?</p>
<p>Thanks ever so much.</p>
<p>HYPSD? </p>
<p>You have 200+ posts on CC and you don’t know this? ;)</p>
<p>Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, and I should have added a C for Cornell, but it is generally looked down upon by Ivy snobs on CC.</p>
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<p>I thought you said that you grew up wealthy, but then I looked at your past posts and saw you are from Detroit, so I can see that there might be many drop outs. Poor Detroit!! It has such lovely architecture - too bad it looks like Beirut now.</p>
<p>MBA- So glad to hear that you have found great care at MD Anderson. We truly are lucky to have such a great medical facility in our city.</p>
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<p>Thank you, ag54, we really are. What really sets MDA apart in my mind, is that they take care of the family as well. It’s very difficult for my wife to sit out there in a waiting room for three-four hours at a time, so the hospitality volunteers bringing around coffee and magazines let her know she’s not forgotten, and the nurses there are the best anywhere at letting family know what’s happening. They even have a color-coded “scoreboard” to let the family know what’s going on at that moment, and how long they have to wait.</p>
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<p>There is “education”, then there is education. Education through academia (who ever told you community college is not education) is only one kind of education (and honestly, you can learn the same things from universities as you do from wikipedia and a ginormous library). There is a lot more to be learned outside of academia, in extra-curricular activities, marriage, friendship, and yes, even dirty work. ROF, you need to learn that you do not need to go to college to be highly educated. All you need is time to explore and reflect.</p>
<p>I value education as much as the smartest man in the world, but I am better educated than to insult people who are not as fortunate or do not have enough as I am. Nor am I educated enough to put accomplished people on a pedestal. I judge people by their characters; I have friends who try hard but get B’s and C’s, and I hate some people who get A’s because they look down on certain crowds. There is a lesson learned in humility and humbleness, because you are not going to get far in life without an open mind and a kind heart. Stop sounding like the pigs in Animal Farm. In life, character counts for much more than a piece of paper (unless that piece of paper is a credit card bill). Only until you understand that are people going to respect you.</p>
<p>It makes me so mad when people think that they are “better” because they went to a better school. It is about what is best for the student, not how smart he or she is. I don’t like any Ivy league schools; they are too far away, when I toured them most of them were in dangerous environments, and they don’t have the kind of programs and majors that I am looking for.</p>
<p>Also, it may be better for many of these students to be the big fish in the small pond by going to schools “beneath” them. A lot of state schools offer prestigious honors programs, big scholarships, research opportunities, and other benefits for its most gifted students. Because everyone at Ivy league schools is bright, students cannot find those kinds of opportunities at those schools.</p>
<p>Do not call any school “beneath” somebody! You do not know about their circumstances. The valedictorian at my school last year, who had stellar grades, extracurriculars, and awards, went to state school because she could not afford to go to the prestigious universities.</p>
<p>Boy, ROF sure has touched a nerve.</p>
<p>I do think one element of his position is indisputable. Yes, many people who are poor, or simply not very accomplished, should look first to themselves for the cause. Then again, ROF’s critics are right to suggest we are all vulnerable to bad luck. We’re vulnerable to injustice. Some of us more so than others. </p>
<p>In a good, prosperous society, everyone is less vulnerable to bad luck and injustice. Building that kind of world definitely takes hard work. However, you don’t motivate people to work hard, let alone help and cooperate with each other, by being a sourpuss, by lording it over others, by gloating over your own success. You let your light shine quietly. After all, even if every single thing in your life is the fruit of your own effort, the spirit that drove you to get it was a gift. People give back and multiply it by freely showing each other respect.</p>
<p>(By the way, one way to show each other respect here is by not trying to “out” each other online. Better to pick and choose where we agree or disagree on the merits. Plenty of conservative people share ROF’s views, we don’t need to dismiss each other as un-American.)</p>
<p>MBA Grad 2009: Glad it is all under control. That hospital does sound wonderful. I wish we had that sort of care here. My dad was at Christie’s hospital in Manchester, England, - a friend of mine who is a doctor said it was world class. “In that case,” said my dad, “there’s something wrong with the world”. Christie’s staff hold pieces of paper that they look at when they cross a room, to avoid looking at the people waiting. They treat people very badly, adding to the stress and strain. </p>
<p>ROF makes me feel old and wise and sad. I am not, personally, disputing that it is great to be able to go to what you all call “reach” schools - it’s the scrabble for status and the blind contempt for others that is hard to stomach. </p>
<p>It can sometimes be a happy choice not to join the crazed race. </p>
<p>I was once on the subway in New York with a portfolio under my arm. A man asked me where I was going. “The botanic gardens in Brooklyn, to paint”. I said. He said he was going to go to a grey cubicle on Wall Street, and had the day before, and would the next day, and the day after that.</p>
<p>People like ROF are the reason my H will continue to be gainfully employed for many years to come. 
Eventually the hubris will get them.</p>
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<p>That seems to be the point.</p>
<p>“ROF makes me feel old and wise and sad.”</p>
<h2>Very true. And the sadder fact is that after all the comments and discussion - he STILL just doesn’t get it.</h2>
<p>“Plenty of conservative people share ROF’s views”</p>
<h2>Um…if you don’t mind…PLENTY of conservatives - including this one - DON’T!</h2>
<p>As for the Ivies and several top notch schools - which could be my son’s “reach” schools (not the Ivies, but the other top notch ones) - they don’t offer the program he wants, at least not an accredited program. So - while they are still in the running - they are at the bottom of the list.</p>
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<p>Thank you Grcxx3, you are absolutely right. It’s silly when one side or another imagine that their members never stoop to a certain behavior. People display their character and honorable natures <a href=“or%20vice%20versa”>i</a>*. What we’ve generally been getting at here, after all, is that this whole idea of “classes” of people to be judged on some superficial assumption is noxious and absurd.</p>
<p>It’s not superficial and there’s a sound basis behind it. You all just won’t accept it because the American value system has brainwashed you all into thinking that “everybody is a winner” and “character has no correlation with societal status”, when reality couldn’t be farther from the truth.</p>
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Academic education and “real-world” education aren’t mutually exclusive. Individuals who succeed scholastically often pick up other qualities/skills like ambition, time management, determination, work ethic, organization, etc. that help manage their personal lives better.</p>
<p>America isn’t a third-world community. Unless you were born handicapped or had severe drug problems as a child, there are plenty of avenues to be successful, at least with regards to one’s current economic situation. The United States is full of rags to riches stories and the idea that there is a large demographic in the US that is incapable of going to college and pursuing a white collar job is preposterous. A lot of middle class and lower class Americans simply accept cheap, unskilled labor as their destiny and do nothing to challenge or empower themselves.</p>
<p>I of course treat unskilled workers with basic human kindness and dignity. I do “look down” upon them in the sense that I am saddened that they did not live up to their potential and didn’t take advantage of the same American democratic system that billions worldwide would like to be a part of. </p>
<p>I just feel bad for them…without a lack of a better of phrase. And many of them steal and traffic drugs as well…clearly signs of 'good character".:rolleyes:</p>
<p>@ring<em>of</em>fire: Your arguments would be more effective if you backed them up with some sources. Is the US really “full of rags to riches stories”? What percentage of low-income children go on to have financial success?</p>
<p>ROF, do not be so quick to assume that the professions you look down upon are “lesser,” or that the people working in them haven’t figured out a path to riches. Where I live, construction workers can be earning six figures. People who work in the oil fields are definitely not at white collar jobs, and yet nevertheless, they make as much, or more, than many lawyers. If (as you wrongly claim), the only test of a person is how much money they have, then there are many ways to achieve that other than a degree from Dartmouth.</p>