Going to An Ivy League School Sucks-- Article

More strawmen. Anyone got a match and we’ll start a bonfire with the oversized scarecrows here? Never said anything was “cut and dried.” But as to the legal responsibilities for providing a happy (but non-criminal) social environment, good luck finding an attorney for such a “suit” against Columbia. Hint: You won’t find one.

I sure hope we’re the only ones giving him so much attention and analysis. Otherwise, he wins.

responded to wrong person.
Nevermind.

Well, seeing the arguments here, and given that he is in fact a Columbia student, apparently in good standing as a rising senior, and apparently on schedule to graduate, perhaps he is correct. Perhaps he is the proof of what he has described, or so the reactions to him here would seem.

Seriously, I am surprised there are grown adults scrutinizing, analyzing, and getting mad at some 20~ year old kid who, thanks to the reactions to this article, will continue working at Vice and thus get paid to do random things or travel to random places, enjoy them, then write about them or (like in this case) write a contrarian article. This is basically the entirety of Vice. So basically, his attitude and lifestyle are working out for him.

I have no problem with him because I know plenty of people his and my age who, at some point, think this way. I’ve personally had my moments where I disliked my school and everyone in it, although luckily I grew to enjoy it. The only difference is that his is public. Maybe in several years he will look back and see he was wrong. That has happened to me many times.

Have any of you read “Paying for the Party?” It was the subject of at least one thread on CC. The authors studied a group of young women who lived on the same floor of a “party dorm” their first year at “Midwest University,” which anyone who is familiar with Indiana U. will recognize immediately.

The young women without money at IU didn’t do all that well. In fact those who transferred to directional state Us did better than those who remained at IU.

Yes, it’s hard not to have the $ to go out for pizza and a movie…or clubbing in NYC, but why on earth do you think this only happens at the Ivies? One of the authors of “Paying for the Party” noted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/education/edlife/elizabeth-a-armstrong-on-her-book-paying-for-the-party.html?_r=0

The authors of “Paying for the Party” were flabbergasted by the number of young women on the floor whose families were in the top 1%. The idea that there are these huge numbers of rich families who can buy their offspring places at Ivy U is preposterous. Heck, some of the people who COULD buy their kids places at an Ivy would rather send them to state U and the kids themselves prefer going there. Yes, there are some development cases at the Ivies, but the # is small…and if you don’t think there are development cases at public flagships or at LACs, let me sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.

There is a small set of very wealthy kids at the Ivies who spend their free time going clubbing and playing in high stakes poker games. I know two of the young women from my neighborhood ran into similar social class issues at Tulane. Now, I’m not saying their experience is typical…I haven’t a clue. I do know though that both felt left out because there were expensive things to do in New Orleans that they couldn’t participate in.

I think you’re actually more likely to make friends with someone whose family is in a different economic class at an Ivy because you’re more likely to live in the same dorm, eat in the same dining hall (on the same meal plan), and participate in the same ECs. You don’t have a big group of people moving off campus sophomore year living in luxury apartment complexes that most students can’t afford and eating most of their meals in Greek houses or restaurants. You don’t have tickets to sporting events being channeled through Greek houses which lots of students can’t afford.

Nobody’s claiming any of the Ivies are Nirvana, but the idea that it’s tougher for a poor kid to go to Harvard, Yale or Princeton than it is for him to go to Syracuse or Tulane or Michigan State is, IMO, just wrong. Hey, the kids on financial aid had to pick up their tickets to the Harvard prom at a separate table according to the Boston Globe article, but at a lot big state schools, they wouldn’t get to go at all.

Sure the kids on financial aid at the Ivies might have a work study job working in the cafeteria…so everyone knows they are on financial aid…but kids at big state U also have work study jobs which make the fact they are on fin aid self-evident.

"The authors of “Paying for the Party” were flabbergasted by the number of young women on the floor whose families were in the top 1%. "

Right, because they obviously weren’t very bright. You’ve got to be not very bright to be flabbergasted by the notion that there are wealthy families and 1%'ers at most state flagships. It’s sort of common sense, really.

They weren’t flabbergasted by the fact that there were 1%ers. They were flabbergasted by how many of them there are. One of the points the book makes is that as state legislatures have cut funding, public Us have increasingly turned to out of state full-fee paying students who pay a premium price above that of in state residents and offered easy majors with easy grading to attract them. They call this way of going through school “the party pathway.”

Huh? This is College Confidential.
There are adults here commenting and analyzing where the son a Mayor decided to go to college.
Nothing should surprise you.

I have no idea why anyone would be flabbergasted by this.

There are 21M students in college.
Assuming uniform distribution of people attending from all economic levels, that means there would be 210,000 students in the 1%. Although, it is far more likely that far fewer people from lower economic levels attend, so that 210,000 would be a lot higher.

Only 0.4% of students attend an Ivy League school, so that means that 209,160 are going to non-Ivy league schools.

There are approximately 1000 colleges in the top 1000 colleges, so that means that each college would have on average 209 students from the 1%.

@skyoverme You’re right, always something I forget. And yeah I would not be surprised either. Plenty of wealthy people go to state schools. Here in Texas in my upper middle class neighborhood (where no one is the 1% but plenty could afford “wealthy people” colleges) most go to UT Austin or A&M.

Also, not sure what you meant by this line but it made me laugh:

Precisely.

Just read the kid’s other article. The kid seems to be thriving. Doing interesting things (that may not please the crowd here). Doing the kind of things one might expect of an Ivy League kid. Not sure where the idea of him being a self-serving hustler comes from. And we can agree to disagree on whether the kid is bright…and intellectual. I have no issue at all seeing as worthy of being an Ivy League student.

@iwannabe_Brown , those statistics are an absolute joke. I don’t know what else to tell you. If you think most students are willing to self-report their non-prescription and illegal drug use, you’re wrong. Particularly the ones who fear the drug culture and just use Adderall occasionally to get through a tough final or long paper every couple months (this describes most of them). Adderall in particular is incredibly easy to obtain on these campuses. People who “don’t know anyone who uses adderall” are just turning a blind eye to the culture. The use of drugs on college campuses isn’t exactly the topic here though so I won’t go any further.

I will reiterate that having a son/daughter in college does not mean you really know what’s going on at these Universities. We always reflect on how campus does a complete 180 for Parent’s weekend, graduation weekend, etc. when parents are in town, that that’s just the obvious stuff, not the subtle pieces of campus culture.

While in college, there were times when I was miserable and hated everything about the place. During some of those times I would write letters to my high school friends (this was in the dark ages when we had to write letters lol). Two weeks later later I would receive a reply from someone that expressed concern about how depressed I sounded. Surprised, I would have a hard time remembering what it is I wrote to that person and why I had felt so unhappy. Perhaps his piece is in the same vein. I think many kids feel the same frustrations when first adjusting to college, partly because they had hoped it would be different from high school but found it was not different enough.

In case anyone is interested, a response piece has been posted: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theodore-caputi/going-to-an-ivy-doesnt-su_b_7309992.html. The author describe his time at Wharton and the opportunities that going to an Ivy League school provided him. While he admits that Penn is a competitive place, it is also very collaborative and supportive. While going to an Ivy League school isn’t the right fit for everyone, there are definitely many who feel at home.

This is an awful lot of conjecture and attention to devote to one student’s opinion. And not only just one student, but one who likes getting attention from writing controversial things.

It would be a LOT more interesting if this represented the results of a quality poll which was reporting that 58% of Ivy league students believed that the Ivies “sucked”.

63% of Harvard students say the school isn’t worth what they pay.
62% of Stanford students say they wish they had gone elsewhere.
59% of Yale students actively trying to transfer…
53.901% of MIT students say they didn’t really like math…

Those would be interesting.

All this kid has is an opinion and he seems to be basing it on some things which are pretty common to life in general.

There are actually quite a few surveys like this. An example is the Harvard senior survey at http://features.thecrimson.com/2014/senior-survey/ . Some quotes that are somewhat related to the article are below:

92% said they would choose Harvard again
88% said they were very satisfied with living arrangements
31% said they plan to initially work in finance or consulting
6% said they plan to still be working in finance or consulting in 10 years
17% admitted to cheating while at Harvard
42% sought mental health counseling while at Harvard

Ok @Pancaked, I’ll play along. What do you think the under reporting percentage is? If 12% admit to using, what do you think is the “real number”? Do you have even a shred of evidence to support the claim that this anonymous survey is so bereft of under reporting? Please educate this “out of touch” 27 year old for whom - yes - I knew people who abused aderall but they were by far the minority and the ones doing it on a regular basis were even further in the minority.

In this study the number was 34%

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980888