<p>Gold in the Ivory Tower
By HERBERT A. ALLEN</p>
<p>THE separation of the wealthiest from the rest of the country is alarming. But it would be even more alarming if we recognized that income isn</p>
<p>Interesting opinion. Kind of like revenue sharing in the National Football League.</p>
<p>I agree that the best and smartest go to the best schools, while those not as gifted or later bloomers go to schools that are not as well equipped, or have less talented professors.</p>
<p>I see this already. Son # 1 just was accepted to Vassar; Son # 2 did poorly on his PSATs, does not have the average or ECs of son #1, and will be going to a school that does not have all of the advantages of a Vassar. Will he benefit as much, financially, from his education? I guess it depends on what he studies, and how hard he works.</p>
<p>But I do think it is easier to succeed from a school like Harvard than it is from a small, underfunded college, public or private. And to extend the financing argument, to have a just society, the wealth should be more equally distributed, both in colleges, and in society. After all, even the wealthy benefit from the tax money that is taken from them - they, more than most, need good policing and security. Bob Brinker asked if the wealthiest Americans would prefer to live in the United States with a 75% tax bracket, or some third world country with a 10% tax bracket. And they always choose the United States because they don't have to hire security guards to leave their guarded properties in this nation. Keep pushing those on the bottom down, and eventually those on the top won't be able to build big enough fences to go around their gated communities and colleges.</p>
<p>Everybody wants to penalize the successful by confiscating their money and giving it to the less successful. That is a recipe for economic descent--not growth.</p>
<p>^^
Case in point: High income taxes in Denmark worsen a labor shortage.</p>
<p>As a self-employed software engineer, Thomas Sorensen broadcasts his qualifications to potential employers across Europe and the Middle East. But to the ones in his native Denmark, he is simply unavailable.</p>
<p>Settled in Frankfurt, where he handles computer security for a major Swiss corporation, Sorensen, 34, has no plans to return to the days of paying sky-high Danish taxes.</p>
<p>High</a> income taxes in Denmark worsen a labor shortage - International Herald Tribune</p>
<p>^^No one wants to penalize the wealthy and successful, but if people want to live in a society that does not have other people living in boxes on the streets, begging, a society in which the wealthy will have to hire bodyguards to protect their privileged kids from kidnappers, as happens in many Central and South American countries with a great wealth disparity, then you had better be willing to pay taxes. In the last 25 years, we have been told over and over that greed and selfishness are fine, that people have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, even though their bootstraps have been cut off by outsourcing their jobs, but that's OK: Ayn Rand said it is fine, so it is OK, don't worry about those in our society who have no health care or can't pay the mortgage, working families who are being overwhelmed by our new society that only cares for the haves.
This new society makes me want to move to Canada, where the people pay for college for the kids, and they actually act like they care about their fellow man.</p>
<p>I'm nowhere near the super wealthy group but I pay about 20%-25% of my gross income in Fed Income Tax (excluding SS and Medicare). I think that's enough. It's hardly like the high income people pay no taxes here. They (top 10%) actually pay about 70% of the total collected.</p>
<p>The</a> Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data</p>
<p>"This new society makes me want to move to Canada, where the people pay for college for the kids"</p>
<p>What??? </p>
<p>"Questions around equity of access to postsecondary education in Canada continue to be hotly debated. One of the questions asked is whether the rising costs associated with attending college or university discourages students from lower and middle income families from pursuing postsecondary studies."</p>
<p>Tuition</a> Fee Deregulation</p>
<p>Fwiw-Don’t forget your passport. It makes it much easier to cross the boarder. ;)</p>
<p>Adigal,</p>
<p>Please accept my apology for the passport quip. I intended no disrespect. My humor doesn’t translate well via the net.</p>
<p>There are some things we can agree. Ayn Rand, albeit an interesting and fascinating woman, propagated some very disturbing views.</p>
<p>Disregarding the fact my grandmother was Canadian, Canada is a great country. I spent many wonderful summers in Ontario and Quebec. Without getting mired in a 2nd amendment argument, every time there’s another mass shooting, whether it be a mall, high school or college, my initial thought is this would never happen in Canada. </p>
<p>Congratulations on your son’s acceptance to Vassar. It’s a great college.</p>
<p>Happy Holidays!</p>
<p>Oh Canada, where mass muderers get convicted of second degree murder and internet child sex abusers get four years</p>
<p>For pete’s sake……………</p>
<p>Vermont is better? </p>
<p>"When Judge Edward Cashman sentenced a man to a 60-day prison sentence for sexually abusing a child, he said he wanted to make sure he got treatment that was unavailable to the criminal from inside a jail cell…… The firestorm began when Cashman sentenced Mark Huelett, 34, who pleaded guilty to charges that he had sexual contact with a girl during a four-year period beginning when she was 6."</p>
<p>USATODAY.com</a> - Vermont asks judge to rethink sex offender's 60-day sentence</p>
<p>Let it die…………</p>
<p>Endowments come from private donations. If an alumnus wants to donate to his university, it should be his right. Otherwise you force him to donate to other colleges. Why?????? This alumnus already supports his state university through taxes. Don't forget that the people who donate money to universities also pay 90% of taxes. But why should they be forced to support other PRIVATE universities?????? They are private. Plus, it is at least strange to count endowment money "per student". Small private LAC are only teaching, but large reasearch universities use their funds on many other projects that are equally important for society. Research, for example.</p>
<p>The NY Times article strikes me as more whining about what is important only to the chattering classes while missing the big picture. The real problem is not that some schools are a lot richer than others; students who go to state universities rather than HYPS still have a good chance to succeed in society. The real problems with respect to the wealth gap and education (all related) are a) the horrible state of elementary and secondary education in places like our inner cities b) the fact that many employers use the college degree as a filter even for jobs where a liberal arts degree doesn't show any meaningful skills and c) that so many of the students who are a victim of a) don't get a chance to go to college at all.</p>
<p>"Small private LAC are only teaching"</p>
<p>I know this is not the main idea of this thread, but I have to respond to it. </p>
<p>Faculty at LACs do more than teach. It is impossible to get a faculty position at a LAC if you are not a strong researcher/scholar and you can't get tenure without a strong publication record as indicated by a review from your peers from around the country.</p>
<p>Oh, Canada, where sick people get taken care of, and don't have to sell their homes to pay for the care. Oh, Canada!!</p>
<p>Erewhon,
I was not offended - I don't even have a passport yet!! I love my country, but it is becoming unrecognizable to me in the last 5 years. Thanks for the congrats for my son. If we can borrow enough money, in the form of loans, then he can go. My disabled husband and I will be paying those loans back for the rest of our lives, but really - we don't mind. Our alternative is to move to a country like Canada, where they provide a free/very affordable education to their citizens. I sure would hate to live in a land like that!!! I prefer to live in a land that spends 1 1/2 trillion dollars spreading democracy around the globe!!</p>
<p>"Our alternative is to move to a country like Canada, where they provide a free/very affordable education to their citizens"</p>
<p>That was the point of post # 8. Canada doesn’t offer any less expensive secondary education than the US. I’m not sure where you got that idea.
Both countires offer aid. Both offer a free education if you qualify.</p>
<p>Read: Tuition</a> Fee Deregulation</p>
<p>"Average tuition fees in Canadian universities have risen steadily over the past ten years. In fact, after several years of relative stability, tuition fees in Canadian undergraduate programs almost doubled over the last decade. </p>
<p>Questions around equity of access to postsecondary education in /Canada/ continue to be hotly debated. One of the questions asked is whether the rising costs associated with attending college or university discourages students from lower and middle income families from pursuing postsecondary studies."</p>
<p>Here is a fair comaprison:
U Toronto
Tuition 5200.00-9400.00
Board 7800.00-12,200.00<br>
Total average 17,300 CAD...21,600 high
[Tuition[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.prospective.utoronto.ca/Money_Matters/Living.htm%5DLiving%5B/url">http://www.prospective.utoronto.ca/Money_Matters/Living.htm]Living[/url</a>]</p>
<p>U Mass Amherst.
Tuition, R&B
Total, 17,399.00</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.umass.edu/admissions/fast_facts/%5DUMass">http://www.umass.edu/admissions/fast_facts/]UMass</a> Amherst: Undergraduate Admissions: Fast Facts](<a href="http://www.prospective.utoronto.ca/Money_Matters/Tuition.htm%5DTuition%5B/url">http://www.prospective.utoronto.ca/Money_Matters/Tuition.htm)</p>
<p>It's late and this isn't the forum to go into a lengthy discussion re the Canadian healthcare system, which I am eminently familiar with; however, let me give you an example of the Canadian system. A close friend of mine, I'll call Jane, is Canadian, a pharmacist (PhD) in the US, but her parents still reside in Canada. Not long ago, Jane’s mother had constant pain in her intestines that Jane knew required an immediate diagnostic MRI. The Canadian HCS had her mother scheduled for the exam <em>eight</em> months after seeing her GP for a referral. Jane immediately brought her to the US for the test and the cancer was diagnosed while it could still be cured. Maybe you don’t lose your house in Canada……but losing your life is a real possibility.</p>
<p>You might be interested in Sally Pipes’ article. She is Canadian</p>
<p>Sally</a> C. Pipes on Heath Care on National Review Online</p>
<p>I realize there’s nothing I can say re your husband that wouldn’t sound patronizing, but I am sorry.</p>
<p>adigal, as a Canadian, I must respectfully say that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.</p>
<p>I'm happy that you like Canada, but please research it fully before making claims about it that are patently false.</p>
<p>barrons: And yet the country has substantially lower crime rates than America. Take it as you will.</p>
<p>For the record, almost all Canadians are outraged about that 4 year sentence, except apparently the lawyers and judge involved. Suggesting that it in any way indicative of the attitudes of the general Canadian populace is deliberately false.</p>
<p>I have students going to school in Canada next year, who are paying a fraction of what our students pay. Please reference this page:</p>
<p>Citizenship</a> and residency status</p>
<p>$58.94 per credit is not less expensive than our least expensive school?</p>
<p>And that old trickle down theory does not seem to be working anymore either, or American optimism, since in a recent poll, only 16% of Americans think their children will have a better future than they do. 50% think our children will be worse off than we are. Our optimism is one of our best characteristics: when that is gone, we are in dire straits. But just as the wealthiest colleges are rolling in endowments, the Wall Streeters are receiving the highest bonuses ever, 38 billion dollars. The land of opportunity seems to limiting itself to only the select few. </p>
<p>adigal:</p>
<p>Please compare like and like. McGill, UToronto are public universities. So is UMass-Amherst. I know people who sent their kids to McGill because it was cheaper than a private college in the US; but it is not cheaper than their own state university.</p>