All the schools we encountered the last two years had me paying 4-5 times more than my FAFSA EFC and we qualify for need based aid.
Our plan (and so far our reality) has been to be equitable to both kids, and to be responsible about saving for our retirement. We said we’d pay for undergrad college tuition and room and board. Like @halflokum we didn’t pay for anything during summers and no entertainment, dining out or clothing. We do pay for things that benefit us, including flights home for key holidays (if they stay at least 2 weeks… same as my parents did) and for now they’re on our insurance and phone plans (but they pay for data) because mom wants them to visit, call, and stay healthy. We are their backstop, and will always buy them groceries and let them live at home if they are ever destitute but otherwise assume they are free agents. I think our D may be choosing to live in a more affordable city knowing she has to eat and make her rent every month, but she also has other reasons for staying there for now. She did work during college so we all know she can make ends meet even if theatre paychecks dry up (telemarketing anyone?).
We view our stance not as being harsh, but rather showing confidence that they can figure out adulthood just like we did.
Amen @halflokum. The ship does not sail off into an endless clear blue ocean on graduation day. We too, wrestle with “get experience” or “make money” over the summers. We hope that doing summer theater - if he’s lucky enough to get it - at poverty-level wages will be leveraged into those enviable “connections”.
Oh, why, oh why, couldn’t he have fallen in love with Accounting. Four months after graduating with a degree in Accounting, a friend’s S packed up a newly purchased used car with musical equipment and relocated to LA to “make it in a rock band”. Within days, he got a “temp” job doing financial stuff for Homeland Security making close to $5000/week. Of course, it’s 60 hours a week and I don’t think the rock band has had a single rehearsal yet. . .
For my two kids, they knew the financial support ended on their final graduation day (be it undergrad or if going onto grad school…one of my kids did the latter). But my kids also believe in this and so it wasn’t like it was held over them but they also felt that once their education was over, they had to support themselves. However, we did not make our kids pay toward their educations (undergrad or grad). They both received need and merit aid along the way. They were not supported by us in summers as they lived away from home and worked in their respective fields and had to pay to live where they were working.
We did pay for health insurance through age 26 (based on the laws) and for my older one, she was a student through that age. My younger one stopped being a student at age 20. We actually didn’t pay her health insurance all the way to 26, but that is a different story (luckily she was able to pick it up through AEA). I do pay for transportation home to visit which is rare (I also visit them), but my parents did that for me their entire lives. And recently, my older daughter moved to my city and lives just five blocks from me and so there is no transportation cost for her to visit! 
What I am still paying for is their education (took out loans). But otherwise, they have supported themselves away from home since graduation day (for one kid that was age 20 and for the other kid that was age 26).
The question about what would I do if the kids could not support themselves…I haven’t given it much thought. It just was not an option for them and it has yet to ever happen. I certainly would not let my kids be out on the street, but the idea of not supporting themselves is not something under consideration. They know it. But again, they believe that is how it should be once they are out of school. They are very fortunate to have had their schooling paid for and the related expenses during those school years.
I still buy them birthday gifts and holiday gifts and honestly, do treat them to things here and there when we are together because it gives me pleasure, but it is not as if they are counting on these treats.
Now, both are getting married in the coming year and so there is that to pay for! While the kids support themselves, I still have major expenses to pay off college and grad school and weddings. So, there’s that.
Funny @mom4bwayboy , Every time my D complains about the audition or application process I ask her if she’s sure she wouldn’t rather be an accountant!
As for funding college, we’ve taken the route of providing each of our 3 kids a set annual dollar amount. If they choose a school over that cost they need to cover that amount themselves, either through scholarships,financial aid or working. We’ve also let them know that we will not be co-signing for private Student loans. This will limit them to the $5500 a year they can get unsecured , but we hope also means not graduating with $100K plus in loans. I did let my D apply to a few pretty expensive top-tier schools honestly thinking she’d never get in. Have to admit that’s backfired a little since she’s passed all her pre-screens. However, she realizes that even if accepted she may not be able to swing the costs , but just wanted to see if she was even good enough. She does have several schools on her list that with merit scholarships should be financially sound. And a couple state schools that can be covered with her annual allowance.
As for after graduation I’ve resigned myself to having to help out a little financially. With my D going for MT and my S studying Animation , both will probably always be struggling and working multiple jobs. Here’s to hoping that the youngest D decides to be an accountant!!!
@artsykidsmom - we had similar parameters for all three of our boys - each in an “Art” field. The eldest is now 25 and since it took him five years to graduate (costs more and takes longer when you don’t attend the classes you don’t like and assume the professors “know” you dropped them). He accumulated a bit more debt than is desirable (Federal only), but is still maintaining a “student” lifestyle - living in a house in “Collegeville” with four roommates, works a part-tie survival job and is in an “emerging” rock band. I don’t agree with all his choices, but he makes his rent and slighty-above-minimal payments on his loan, knows many ways cook to rice, and fortunately likes to read books and listen to audio for entertainment (while wrapped up in multiple layers of clothing). He’s on our health insurance for another year and we have been known to help out with car repairs. Do I wish he was sailing in a bigger ship? Yep. But he’s making his own choices and seems to like the boat he’s in.
I appreciate what you are saying @SoozieVT and @momcares but neither of you can actually answer the question that I’m struggling with. Your kids made it or are making it and could from day one. Maybe mine will too and she knows it is what we are expecting but here is really the crux of what I’m saying, what if she can’t? What if yours didn’t? I don’t think you really know what you would do if yours didn’t and right now, I don’t either. So let’s be honest about this. You can raise them will all of the right expectations. Expect them to work hard and then watch as they do. As they hustle and kill themselves to do what they can. It still doesn’t automatically mean the math works right out the gate especially when they have so little to start with.
My daughter is already living in NYC and has established some contacts there. So was yours SoozieVT and momcares, yours is living in a wonderful theatre city and doing well too and has established her contacts there as well. Am I really willing to fully pull the plug if she cannot make rent right after graduation forcing her to donate or sell what little furniture and home goods she has, give up her apartment with a rent that by NYC standards is a really good ($600/month currently including heat and hot water) and move home to be a lifeguard or similar until she saves up enough money to what, move back to NYC and start all over again from scratch? Is that really the smart thing to have her do or is it more prudent to help out a little bit until the ball gets rolling if it isn’t already rolling by graduation. Am I just trying to prove a point? Am I bad parent if I stick to what I said or a bad parent if I bend? Would you really pull the plug that quickly if yours couldn’t make it?
In NYC, $600 a month is about the before taxes amount that a well paid hostess (meaning $15/hour vs. the usual $11 - 12) earns in a week if they work 40 hours which probably means auditioning will be challenging. To live in a place like that, expect to spend some time on the subway. That monthly pass is $116.50/month. Internet, gas and electricity shared among 3 roommates, figure another $100/month easily. If you throw in student loan repayment, cell phone, medical expenses, food, clothing, household supplies you are pretty much living from paycheck to paycheck. There are of course jobs that pay more per hour (jobs that include tips but don’t assume you can get those without NYC restaurant experience and that starts with hostessing, nannies can make more, tutors make more) but it takes time to find those jobs and get things going. They don’t come tucked in with the diploma.
I’m really looking forward to reporting that my daughter hits the ground running in June and has this all sorted out and this concern of mine was for nothing. She will only be a part time student beginning in January so she will have time to get her irons in the fire while still under our support. If it works out I will then join all of the veterans who can speak to it boldly like it is an expectation. But I maintain that it will be a lot easier to say it can be done once it has happened than it is to believe it will happen until it does. So for me the question remains, what do you do if it doesn’t happen? Forgive me but I still don’t know the answer to that and momcares and SoozieVT, you luckily don’t really either.
Here’s the thing, @halflokum While one can state that I don’t know what I would do if my kid could not make ends meet once out of school…the fact is, I did not have the money to give to her or support her. It was not really an option for my daughters, and not just speaking of values or preferences. It is already very challenging to pay the college loans myself. Of course, I would never have my kids live on the street!
I would not say my MT daughter hit the ground running right out of the gate. She did get cast immediately following graduation and got her Equity card. That was a fairly low paying gig. It has taken a while to build a career. She’d be the FIRST to say that. It is true that she has earned her money ONLY through theater and music related jobs. But for several years, these included survival jobs. They were simply all survival jobs involved in theater and music. She no longer does those, however. She did not have to pay any college loans herself. Was she rolling in the dough? Of course not. But apparently she was able to pay her share of rent with roommates in a Brooklyn apartment, put food on the table, and other essential living expenses. I think if they MUST, most kids can cobble together various income producing jobs to meet general living expenses. My kid earned money through many different avenues. Over time, she has built things up a bit, though it is challenging. She doesn’t have all her eggs in one basket…the “auditioning and getting cast” basket. Yes, she has been in many shows and has an Off Broadway show opening up this winter. But her career is not solely being in theater productions. My D’s fiancé and many other peers, all who have BFA degrees in drama/MT, seem to support themselves. It doesn’t mean they are making lots of money, but they are getting by without parental support. Not all their income necessarily comes from performing on stage. In my D’s case, it does come from many sources, but they are all related to theater and music. Some friends have survival jobs as well, such as yoga teacher, or working in kids’ programs and so on. It can be done, with some hustle. This isn’t the same as saying “making it in theater” right out of the gate necessarily. It does take time to build a career and a network. Then, it can mushroom. It certainly has taken my D some time and each year gets better. I had faith that both my daughters would be able to find a way to support themselves once they earned their final degree. They had no other option than to do so. I really cannot afford to support them. If someone else can help fund their kids after they graduate and wants to do that, great. There is no one way. Just sharing what my kids had to do. And I think if one has to do it, they can find a way. It may or may not be ideal jobs. They can have survival jobs on the side such as babysitting (my kids haven’t done this but saying it is an option). I also derive some of my income from non-professional work because when one needs to survive, they have to find a way.
I don’t really see the contradiction here. We all expect our kids to support themselves when they graduate, somehow, not necessarily through theater work. We all recognize that they may hit some rough patches and I think most of us will help them to the extent we can. My parents sent me $500 when I moved to NYC a million years ago. I will never forget going to Western Union (in Times Square!) to pick it up. But I didn’t ask for that, and it was the LAST time they ever sent money for living expenses. I knew I had to make a go of it, and I did, and I don’t think my kid is any less of a survivor than I was…so I worry, but I don’t worry that much.
^^That pretty much sums it up for me too.
@SoozieVT, I’m not taking a thing away from what your daughter accomplished and nor am I implying in anyway that she didn’t work her butt off to make things happen. Her story is an excellent story. But for her things did happen. I really hope I get to say the same about my daughter.
And I hear you also about not having the money to continue support. I’d like to say the same for us as well but I’m asking myself how come we managed to find the money on June 17 and then on June 18th the second she graduates we lose our hunting and gathering instincts? What difference does a day really make? Or a month? Or 6 months? Should it matter and if so, why?
And for anyone reading this, please don’t read it like I’m whining. I’m just pondering. I don’t know the answers but I’m pondering and wishing I was already on the other side of knowing the answers. Sort of like many of you when it comes to this whole college admissions hunt. It doesn’t end…
Well, for me, there really was a difference. That is because I didn’t have all the money to pay for my kids’ colleges and graduate schools while they were attending and so am paying for ten more years. So, it is not like all the payments ended and I had money to spare. I honestly do not have the money to support my kids. Paying off college, my own expenses, their weddings, is a huge challenge without supporting them at this juncture. So, I understand your point very much, but it doesn’t apply to all situations.
I can relate to this because as parents, we worry! And yeah, it doesn’t end on graduation day or at a certain age! And in the field of performing arts, most jobs are not long-term and so there is that constant wondering and pondering if they will have income after this next job and so on. But I wouldn’t worry too much if your daughter can find a means of support. It is challenging. But keep in mind she found a way each summer during college and will find things and piece together some income once she graduates. Over time, things build because their network grows and their resumes and experiences grow. There is that unknown factor that makes a parent worry. I just have faith that something will work out for your daughter. It may not be ideal at first, but things will unfold. Kinda like college admissions, as you say. But yeah, it never ends.
I think if you give your child the expectation to support herself (and I know you have in your case), she’ll do all she can. You can always be a soft pillow to land on if there are bumps in the road. This is different than kids who are not too concerned about earning money because they know their parents will keep supporting them. My kids just did not have that option. They were not upset by that and really believed it was their time to do whatever possible to earn their way, just like they did during the summers in college (and your D did too) and so this was not the first time they had to figure that out. They may not be able to afford all the comforts like new clothes and such, but I imagine most kids with some drive can find a way to earn money for the basics.
Again, this subject came up between myself and a friend who is in the same boat. She reads here and maybe she’ll eventually jump in or not but my raising it was not supposed to open the door for a comparison of how people who are already out and functioning drew the line and what should be in bounds or out. It’s personal and not something to battle over. It’s a choice. For example, I’m not intending to pay for grad school. It’s not something I’ll find the money for even if I could. But I fully respect people who decide they will find the money for it and I get why that’s something they value.
@SoozieVT, we will be paying loans for a long time to come as well so really, it’s not that different. That decision was already in the bag prior to graduation and doesn’t change anything from one day to the next in my logic. So again, when I think about it, I do ask myself, what is the difference between June 17 and June 18? Or a week from then? Or a month? It’s as arbitrary a line as any. I’m just pondering. I maybe June 18 is exactly where the line belongs. That was always the plan but again, it’s a conversation that I’m having with myself as the reality sinks in and incidentally just yesterday was speaking with a friend about it who is also noodling it. Just thought I’d throw it in the mix here too.
Also @SoozieVT, I do appreciate your encouragement about my worry mentioned above. It is truly helpful to hear stories about people who make it work. I just want to BE ONE who can share it um… yesterday.
Have faith,@halflokum!! 
But yes, it is not a comparison and everyone has different means, as well as different values and what not. There is no one right way. Some parents, even if they can afford it, have their kids take out loans to pay to attend college. Some parents won’t pay for all of college. Some don’t believe in paying for grad school. Some have more kids than others. And sure, with my older D, that was 8 years of school to pay off and I still am. Some people pay for private K-12. Not an option for my kids. There are many variations. I was just saying that in my case, there really is no money to support our adult children. I’m sure if they could not get by, we’d have to find a way to not let 'em starve! Just like our kids manage to find a way to get work, us parents would have to find a way to help them if we had to. And you know, here is an example of the latter…both my Ds (as you know) are getting married around the same time and I can ill afford weddings, but I am going to try to find a way to do that. So, I guess some of it is choices mixed into the equation. As the saying goes, where there’s a will, there’s a way!
Yikes weddings. Well I’d love to say there is plenty of time to worry about that for us but wasn’t it just the other day that I made my very first post in CC I think asking about whether or not it was realistic to expect MT students to work part time jobs while in school because… I was worried about how the heck we were going to pay for all of this if the kid even got in and wanted some degree of confidence my kid could contribute? Blink.
Well one thing I did learn along the way came from something my own sister hit me smack between the eyes with after my daughter’s college results came rolling in. Short version is that my daughter did pretty well and got into the majority (but certainly not all) of schools she applied to. So my sister was saying how great things had turned out for her and I said something obnoxious like, “yeah, I’m not sure why people tell you it’s such a big deal to get into these programs.” She got quiet and then said with awell-deserved amount of snark and disgust, “You have now idea how much all that really happened is that she won the lottery and all over the country right now are equally deserving and talented kids who didn’t.”
My sister was right. So I think about that when I consider what comes next for my daughter because not everybody wins the lottery once never mind twice no matter how hardworking and talented. Can’t help but want it for her but I don’t know if buying more “tickets” meaning things like providing some form of post graduate support (or grad school or whatever else one puts on the list based on preferences) changes the odds or not. The person who buys 7 tickets and doesn’t have his/her number come up is as out of luck as the person who just buys 1 and it doesn’t come up either. And the person who buys just 1 ticket and wins with that 1 ticket may always think that’s how it works and another person who buys 7 tickets and one of them wins may think the reason they won was because they helped their odds by buying more tickets.
Who is right and where the heck is a crystal ball when we need one?
I know for certain @halflokum if your daughter came to you post graduation and said I want to audition hard and need help for the next six months you would be on the next plane hand delivering the much needed support! You are an amazing mom and no need to second guess yourself or worry about how much or how little you should support her. Because there is nothing you wouldn’t do to help her realize her full potential in pursuing this crazy life she has chosen. It’s only money right? Meant to be spent…we can always make more of that stuff LOL
Very kind @bisouu. You are probably right. The balance is that the effort must be shown on the other end. I have no reason to doubt it will be. I’m optimistic that next semester she’ll get ahead of the curve. That will be awesome news to share.
Keep us posted as it unfolds. . .
I totally agree that financial and childrearing questions are completely personal, so one person’s way need not be another’s. Both my husband and I worked in theatre before switching to engineering, so knowing what we both did about the industry no doubt colors our decisions. Given that we had talked about it a great deal before our D chose an MT path I am quite sure we wouldn’t have budged much on our pre-college plan. As it stands our D is subletting and owns no furniture and few household supplies. She’s living the gypsy life until she can afford to settle down (@halflokum so far your D’s expenses are lower than sublets in D’s town so good for her!), but based on our experiences if she decides that’s a priority she’ll figure out how to make that happen even if it means a change of career. She’s watched enough people make that choice that she knows it’s a life choice versus admitting defeat. She’s also seen plenty of folks who had wanted to be actors find areas of theatre to excell in that gave them more control over their careers (writing, directing, talent management, stage managing, etc.), so she knows that’s an option as well. It’s a big world and I look forward to watching our kids navigate it!
… I should also add that I have no more respect for Actors than for Accountants. 