Good Safety Schools for top students?

OP, no I was not. At a #12 LAC that reports its acceptance distribution and had a reported mean of 31-33 a 35 ACT had a 67% chance of acceptance so pretty good.

@wisteria100, because at the schools with higher avg ACT scores, the hook wasn’t enough to tip her over - no coach at a school ranked above #10 gave her a supportive pre-read as the best she got was “on the bubble”.

Tulane is also one that considers interest. And U Rochester.

Lehigh itself says that applicants with 34-36 ACT (or 1500-1600 SAT) had a 38.6% chance of admission to the Class of 2020. More specifically, 558 admits out of 1,447 applicants with such scores.
https://www1.lehigh.edu/admissions/undergrad/profile

Now, 38.6% is certainly a decent chance, and it is clearly higher than the overall acceptance rate of 26.1%. But … is 38.6% really “a high probability”? I would have to say no.

@corbett, assuming a 38.6% admit rate for a 34-36 ACT when the OP achieved a 35 likely means a 35 has an ~45% admit rate which I would say is a high enough probability to consider it a safety.

Why is everyone talking about Lehigh?

@perspectivestude , why don’t you start with this list as it’s not a subjective list, nor does it try to qualify what makes a school most selective school - it just lists the schools by SAT score to keep it simple. I think you’ll see some good safer choices in the 70-106 range; it’s not perfect as some schools such as Colby have seen much lower than expected acceptance rates because of the way they have gamed the application submission game, but it’s a reasonable guide.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-610-smartest-colleges-in-america-2015-9

Smarts Rank School Average SAT
1 California Institute of Technology 1550
2 University of Chicago 1510
3 Harvard University 1505
3 Yale University 1505
5 Princeton University 1500
6 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 1495
7 Harvey Mudd College 1494
8 Columbia University 1480
9 Stanford University 1475
9 Northwestern University 1475
11 Rice University 1470
12 Vanderbilt University 1465
12 Washington University in St. Louis 1465
12 University of Notre Dame 1465
15 Duke University 1460
15 Pomona College 1460
17 University of Pennsylvania 1455
17 Dartmouth College 1455
17 Williams College 1455
20 Amherst College 1450
20 Swarthmore College 1450
22 Johns Hopkins University 1445
22 Bowdoin College (2) 1445
24 Brown University 1440
24 Carnegie Mellon University 1440
24 Tufts University 1440
27 Claremont McKenna College 1435
28 Cornell University 1420
28 Georgetown University 1420
28 Northeastern University 1420
31 Carleton College 1415
32 Haverford College 1410
33 Vassar College 1405
34 Georgia Institute of Technology 1400
34 Grinnell College 1400
36 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 1395
37 University of California—​Berkeley 1390
37 Hamilton College 1390
37 Washington and Lee University 1390
40 Wellesley College 1385
40 Wesleyan University (2) 1385
42 University of Southern California 1380
42 University of Michigan—​Ann Arbor 1380
44 Colgate University (3) 1375
44 Reed College (4) 1375
44 Cooper Union 1375
47 Emory University 1370
47 College of William and Mary 1370
47 Case Western Reserve University 1370
50 Macalester College 1368
51 Boston College 1365
51 Brandeis University 1365
51 Middlebury College 1365
54 Tulane University 1360
54 Scripps College (3) 1360
56 University of Virginia 1355
56 Smith College (2) 1355
56 Oberlin College 1355
56 Bates College (2) 1355
60 New York University 1345
60 University of Rochester (2) 1345
60 Barnard College 1345
63 Colorado School of Mines 1340
63 Stevens Institute of Technology 1340
63 Colorado College (2) 1340
63 United States Air Force Academy 1340
63 Bard College at Simon’s Rock (9) 1340
68 Davidson College 1335
68 Mount Holyoke College (2) 1335
70 Colby College (2) 1330
70 Pitzer College (2) 1330
70 Connecticut College (2) 1330
70 St. John’s College (NM) (2) 1330
74 University of California—​Los Angeles 1325
74 Kenyon College 1325
74 University of Richmond 1325
77 Lehigh University 1320
77 University of Miami 1320
77 Southern Methodist University 1320
77 Bryn Mawr College (2) 1320
77 St. John’s College (MD) (2) 1320
77 Wheaton College (IL) 1320
83 Wake Forest University (2) 1315
83 University of Maryland—​College Park 1315
83 Whitman College 1315
86 Worcester Polytechnic Institute (2) 1310
86 Villanova University 1310
88 University of North Carolina—​Chapel Hill 1305
88 University of Illinois—​Urbana-​Champaign 1305
88 University of Tulsa 1305
88 Bucknell University 1305
88 College of the Holy Cross (2) 1305
88 Union College (NY) (2) 1305
88 Franklin and Marshall College (2) 1305
88 St. Olaf College 1305
96 University of California—​San Diego 1300
96 Boston University 1300
96 Ohio State University—​Columbus 1300
96 Brigham Young University—​Provo 1300
96 Lafayette College 1300
96 Occidental College 1300
96 Rhodes College 1300
96 Hillsdale College 1300
96 Santa Clara University 1300
105 George Washington University 1295
106 Binghamton University—​SUNY 1290

I agree with @Chembiodad - test scores don’t come close to telling the whole story for the most competitive schools, but for this purpose they can be quite helpful. Conversely, kids I know with ok test scores but very high grades found it much more difficult to suss out target and safety schools.

on is in class of 2018 and is in the process of finalizing college list. His stats are very good (1560 SAT, 35 ACT, 4.0 Unweighted, 12 AP classes once graduate all 5’s so far, 800’s on Chem and Math II and Math I Subject Tests, #1 in class) and has good extracurriculars (3 sport varsity letterman, recruited in football and soccer; section lead in orchestra cello; leadership positions on teams and in school; research assistant to astronomy professor at Rice and co-authored scholarly article with him submitted for publication)…

He is primarily interested in math and theoretical physics. We are struggling with college list since most of the schools are reaches for everyone. Caltech has offered athletic support for application; loves Harvard and Princeton math departments; loves MIT; Stanford; Yale and Chicago will be on the list for physics…we are in Texas so UT Austin probably on list and Rice…

Not real excited about “safety” schools of Texas and Rice. Thoughts on building a college list for a kid like this who on paper should have a good shot at top schools but such reach schools make list difficult without reaching down to schools not excited about.

@brazos21 since he is a solid applicant, pursue the athletic angle (which is the biggest hook), Stanford may be out since it doesn’t sound like they would pursue him as an athlete but most of the others would. He would most likely get a likely letter very early on if he commits to one of the schools.

@brazos21 Seems like this may hinge on the seriousness of the athletic recruiting. If your son is truly on a coach’s admissions wish list, the academic record is strong enough. If you are looking at colleges on an "unhooked’ basis, it would be wise to to have some Plan Bs in the mix.

@brazos21, unless he gets a NLI from an Ivy/Ivy equivalent or a firm pre–read from a top D3, I would go with the protocol I outlined in post #33; it doesn’t help with the top-10-15 universities given they are reaches for everyone, but I think it works for matches and safeties. Regarding Caltech, I think that’s probably the easiest top school to get an athletic hook at as their teams tend to struggle to find recruits - my Xc/track DD passed on their outreach as she’s not a STEM kid.

Too often, rankings and mentions of SAT scores don’t stress whether they are scores of accepted students or enrolled students.

^ The CDS is clear about that.
Section C9 applies to
“Percent and number of first-time, first-year (freshman) students enrolled in Fall 2016 who
submitted national standardized (SAT/ACT) test scores” (emphasis added).

AFAIK, the CDS is the closest thing to an authoritative, standardized source of test score information.

@perspectivetude: Apply in early September to UMass Amherst and Penn State, including Honors College (yes they’re not urban, but there’s anything a college student could want in Amherst or State College, and major cities such as Boston or NYC are within 4-5 hours by cheap bus or car if you need a weekend metropolitan fix). Add ASU Barrett and Pitt. You’ll hear back in November and have your safeties. BTW Barrett (ASU) and Schreyer (PSU) are among the top honors colleges in the country.
Fordham and Villanova are excellent suggestions too, apply EA.
That should be plenty for safeties. :slight_smile:
Now, focus on your matches. For you, those would be schools with 30-40% acceptance rate. Make sure you have 3-5 of them.

OP, always listen to @MYOS1634 . MYOS knows all and sees all and will never steer you wrong.