<p>ucbchemegrad,
I think U Michigan's win over U Florida was great for U Michigan and probably their best game and win of the year. The Heisman thing means little in reality-didn't the Ohio State guy win last year and look what happened to them.</p>
<p>In the SEC bowl games, Auburn beat Clemson and Tennessee beat Wisconsin. Also, Kentucky beat Florida State, Mississippi State beat Central Florida, Alabama beat Colorado, Georgia beat Hawaii, and LSU beat Ohio State. The SEC losers were Arkansas (to Missouri) and Florida (to Michigan). South Carolina won enough games to qualify for a bowl, but did not get a bid.</p>
<p>For the PAC 10, USC beat Illinois, Oregon beat South Florida, Oregon State beat Maryland, and Cal beat Air Force. The PAC 10 losers were UCLA (to BYU) and Arizona State (to Texas).</p>
<p>For the Big Ten, Michigan beat Florida, Purdue beat Central Michigan, and Penn State beat Texas A&M. The Big Ten losers were Michigan State (to Boston College), Indiana (to Oklahoma State), Wisconsin (to Tennessee), Illinois (to USC) and Ohio State (to LSU).</p>
<p>Wow, Hawkette, I like that list in post # 11. Vanderbilt beats Duke!!!</p>
<p>I'm afraid my interest waned after that point, since I'm not a rapid fan like some of you folks.</p>
<p>However, the OP--who has taken leave of us, I fear--has a lot of good possibilities to look at. Big schools, smaller schools, public, private. I'd say it is possible to find good academics, good football and good basketball at a lot of places. Frankly, it is my opinion that frrom the point of view of a student spectator, good sports serves the purpose as well as great sports.</p>
<p>As a Big East fan (who received a graduate degree from Syracuse) I am compelled to throw these schools into the mix:</p>
<h1>19 (USN&WR) Notre Dame -- Affiliated with the BE in all sports except for Football; yes, ND was terrible last year but it has a #1 rated recruiting class coming in and is on the comeback trail.</h1>
<h1>23 Georgetown -- Great basketball tradition but DI-AA football squad.</h1>
<h1>50 Syracuse -- Basketball team has been woefully depleted through injuries this year but watch out in 2008! What can you say about the football team's performance but wait until next year? Oh, and nice catch David Tyree!</h1>
<h1>59 Pittsburgh -- In a rebuilding phase but a strong tradition in football and, more recently they've had some pretty good basketball teams.</h1>
<h1>59 Rutgers -- Ray Rice has gone to the NFL. Will that stadium expansion be put on hold?</h1>
<h1>64 Connecticut -- I'm a Syracuse fan so what I have to say about the Huskies would violate the terms of agreement.</h1>
<p>Pitt was voted in the top ten of best two-sport (basketball and football) schools in a poll on espn.com and it is pretty deserving of that spot. Their basketball program is excellent even though they have had some rough spots since Levance Fields and Mike Cook got injured (but Fields will be back before the tournament as long as everything goes well) and they have plenty of young talent, especially DeJuan Blair. While the football team didnt do all that well last season, they did beat West Virginia the last game when WVU was ranked #2 in the country. They also have Big East Freshman of the year LeSean McCoy and All-American middle linebacker Scot McKillop returning, in addition to a nationally-ranked recruiting class.</p>
<p>midmo,
Vanderbilt ahead of Duke athletically may be a surprise for some, but Duke football is truly awful at the moment. Anyway, Duke has a lot of other sports that they are pretty darn good at. And so does Vanderbilt. Athletic life at these two colleges is excellent, particularly when you consider the level of academics being offered. The only other schools in the USNWR Top 20 that can offer this are Stanford, Northwestern, Notre Dame and I like Rice which, despite its lousy football/basketball score, has a good athletic life led by its nationally ranked baseball team. </p>
<p>As for the other football comments, I say "uncle." I don't really care enough to have more of these debates about which is best unless you want to extend the topic to which schools offer the best parties to go along with their sports scenes. Now that would be a fun topic!</p>
<p>"U Michigan has a good football history,..."</p>
<p>Just good huh?! LOL! Hawkette, Michigan is considered one of the top 2 or 3 programs in the history of college football. Michigan has more wins than any other program, a better overall record than any other program and the highest historical composite AP polls ranking of any program. </p>
<p>Michigan has a winning record vs Alabama (2-1), Florida (2-0), Nebraska (3-1-1), Notre Dame (20-14-1), Ohio State (57-41-6) and Penn State (10-3). Michigan is 0.500 vs FSU (1-1) and Miami (of Florida) (1-1). The only major program that Michigan has played more than once that has a winning record over Michigan is USC (I think USC is 5-4 vs Michigan) and all of those games were played in LA! That's a combined 100-57-8 vs top 10 programs. Not too shabby if I may say so.</p>
<p>"...but the weakness of the Big Ten is a big reason why. Granted, Lloyd Carr did go 6-2 vs the SEC, but only one of those wins (Alabama in 2000) was against a team ranked in the Top 10. Not exactly the best of the SEC. It does matter when you play 'em, eg, Ohio State's demolition by Florida last year and LSU this year."</p>
<p>Hawkette, Florida was ranked in the top 10 when we played them in the Capital One Bowl last month. Alabama wasn't merely ranked in the top10. If I recall, they were ranked #5 back in the 2000 Orange Bowl. And 6 of the remaining 7 SEC teams we played in the last 20 years were ranked in the top 25. Hardly chopped liver. </p>
<p>The SEC is a great conference, but it is not better than the Big 10, Big XII or Pac 10.</p>
<p>Alexandre,
I was trying to be complementary to U Michigan. Sorry if you didn't see my comments that way. But either way, it's history. Isn't what is happening now more important than what happened 10, 20 or 50 years ago??</p>
<p>As for the polls, I consider them are about as reliable and accurate as...PA scores. Wasn't U Michigan ranked in the AP top 5 when Appalachian State came to town? </p>
<p>As for the SEC, I think that most of those schools would consider it nice to be ranked in the Top 25, but given that there are 6-7 SEC schools in there, it's not such a big deal. SEC teams play teams of that caliber in nearly every conference game, not 1-2 times a season. </p>
<p>As for a current comparison of the SEC or Pac 10 or the Big 12 vs. the Big Ten in football, I doubt that there is a fan outside of Big Ten country who would agree with you that the Big Ten is at the same level. But I really don't want to get into a big football debate. It doesn't matter. What matters is that you can have a good time going to games at U Michigan or at any of the other great schools that I have mentioned.</p>
<p>Hawkette, you're the one sparking the debate with these outrageous claims:</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for a current comparison of the SEC or Pac 10 or the Big 12 vs. the Big Ten in football, I doubt that there is a fan outside of Big Ten country who would agree with you that the Big Ten is at the same level.
[/quote]
As a Pac10 fan, I agree with Alexandre's statement.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Football in the Big Ten has been essentially two colleges and everyone else for about forever.
[/quote]
And I guess Penn State and Wisconsin are chop liver?</p>
<p>
[quote]
SEC teams play teams of that caliber in nearly every conference game, not 1-2 times a season.
[/quote]
SEC teams, like Big Ten teams, don't have a say in who they play in-conference, so that's not fair. Out of conference schedules are within the schools control and the SEC is just as bad as scheduling creampuffs as the Big Ten.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wasn't U Michigan ranked in the AP top 5 when Appalachian State came to town?
[/quote]
Yes, this was a preseason ranking. Michigan lost and was dropped like a hot potato. It was one game...they overlooked the opponent and suffered the consequences. It happens all the time.</p>
<p>Hawkette, I agree, we should not debate conference strength since as you point out, each conference thinks it is the best. In fact, I believe that no conference can lay claim to being the best. They are all very good. </p>
<p>As for the polls, they are not exact (just like the PA), especially not pre-season polls. However, by the end of the season, they shape up pretty nicely. Of course, rating a football team isn't like rating a university. If one or two key players have a bad day or are lost to injury, a team is seriously affected. Just look at Michigan last seaon. We played without Ched Henne and Micheal Hart for half the season, and it clearly showed when the team travelled to Wisconsin and played OSU. And don't remind me of Appalchian State! PLEASE!!! But as UCBChem said, it happens often. Didn't a very mediocre Stanford team beat #1 ranked USC at USC this year?</p>
<p>ucbchemegrad and alexandre,
Not going to beat the dead horse. We disagree, but isn't it nice that there are fun, exciting, nationally-meaningful games being played that will decide this debate (at least a little) and great tailgates and parties where we can enjoy ourselves with our fellow fans. </p>
<p>I think you will agree with me that the undergraduate experience that a student will get at one of these colleges with top football and basketball is a lot different than what you will find at many of the schools where they have large applications overlap, eg, colleges in the USNWR Top 30 National Universities and Top 20 LACs. This really can be a key differentiator in the college search process of what is (or is not) available at these colleges. Some folks won't care at all which is fine, but some will care a lot. And probably many don't even know the nature of what they're missing, but would really enjoy it if they gave it a try. </p>
<p>Beyond the academic aspects of your colleges, you guys are passionate about your college's football/basketball teams, not to mention other sports where your college may excel. I think that is pretty cool. You guys know how much fun can be found during a fall sports season in Ann Arbor or Berkeley or a winter sports season in Durham/Chapel Hill or South Bend or a spring sports season in Houston or Nashville or Palo Alto and how that compares with what is going on in places like Ithaca or Providence or Philadelphia. I think you also know and appreciate how the football/basketball "scene" at your alma maters can play a fun role in one's life many years after graduation. Hopefully, others with similar interests will see and understand this and find their way to one of these colleges with a good athletic scene.</p>
<p>what kind of grades do you have? if you can get into virtually any college, i'd suggest applying to texas, miami, ucla, and wisconsin. all of them are top notch sports programs with great party scenes.</p>