Got offered $33k, Still going to be $100k in debt -- Is it worth it?

Paying for College
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<p>*To </p>

<p>So unless the name of the school is MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon or Stanford … nobody cares. </p>

<p>My advice:</p>

<ol>
<li>Go where it’s cheap.</li>
<li>Go the extra mile on all class projects. Really learn the stuff, put extra bells and whistles on.</li>
<li>Spend summers trying to intern. If you can’t get paying work, try to contribute to open source projects.</li>
</ol>

<p>The main thing is that you have to be an expert, which means you have to have N thousand hours of experience. Get the experience any way you can, starting now.*</p>

<p>Really, the state of Calif has soooo many good CS schools, some very cheap ones, (CSUs), that corporations happily hire their graduates.</p>

<p>Look at it this way…4 years from now you’ll be hired by XX corporation. The other new hires will get paid the SAME as you. Some of those new hires will be debt-free or low debt from CSU’s. Again, they will get paid the SAME as YOU. So, when they get their bi-weekly checks, their pay will be going to their future life…savings, a new home, etc. BUT, a good CHUNK of your pay will be going towards large unnecessary debt for TEN LONG YEARS. Imagine yourself at that time. Your colleagues are moving along with their futures, while you’re stuck in debt because your naive relatives encouraged a bad decision. BTW…there’s no way that you can depend on these relatives to give you money each month for TEN LONG years towards your debt payments. They’ll have their own lives. They’ll be earning less money. They’ll have their own obligations. They won’t want to continue helping you for TEN years. But, even if they did, your portion is still too high and totally unnecessary.</p>

<p>Remember, you will NOT get paid more because your degree is from Chapman. You will not get paid more because you have massive debt.</p>

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<p>Short update : </p>

<p>I got a response from SLO. Unfortunately I didn’t get in. Luckily my heart wasn’t really set on that school. </p>

<p>Also, Should I expect my school costs to go up or down each year? I used the same cost for all 4 years to estimate my total debt. I talked to Chapman’s financial aid office and they said I still have “unmet need” and could qualify for more loans/free money? They also said to look at things from year to year because my financial status could change drastically each year when I reapply for aid.</p>

<p>How much truth is there to this?</p>

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<p>Need based aid is computed annually. Keep in mind that the cost of attendance will likely increase about 3-5% annually. Your aid would not increase unless there was a decline in your income/assets.</p>

<p>You need to look at your loan potential over four years. Assume AT LEAST the same loan amount for each year. </p>

<p>Do you have any options that are more affordable?</p>

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<p>At the moment, I’ve only been accepted to Chapman and Cal Poly Pomona. I have’t received a financial aid packet from Pomona, nor do I have a large interest in attending the school. Of course, I also have the choice of going to Saddleback College or any other Community College in Orange county where it would be only a few thousand dollars a year to attend. However, I really would like to avoid the CC route due to it lacking the real college environment and instead just feeling like an extension of high school (I don’t think I would have the motivation to succeed for 2 years to transfer).</p>

<p>To be clear, I was given $33k and Tuition with room and board is about 57k – Totalling to 24k per year unpaid. If I only live on campus for my first year, I would be paying 24k for year 1 and 12k for years 2,3,and 4 ASSUMING my financial aid is not cut by living off campus. How much aid do you think I would lose if I lived off campus? I really hope it’s not the full $12k it costs for room and board.</p>

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<p>Ask Chapman how much your package would change if you were not living on campus. When you talk about not living on campus, are you thinking of living at home and commuting, or renting an apartment off campus. Either way, you won’t save the entire $12K because you will have living or commuting expenses.</p>

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<p>What is the problem with Cal Poly Pomona, that you don’t like it? How much is it without any financial aid? You will get some Cal money won’t you, automatically to reduce that cost?</p>

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<p>Go to CPP. It’s a very good school and highly respected in the region. Chapman’s debt isn’t worth it…at all.</p>

<p>CPP is a known STEM school. Chapman is known for being a B school.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t plan on living at home after freshmen year when trying to calculate cost. You never know when you get to the school if you might not want to have to become a commuter after a year on campus.</p>

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<p>^^WoodyT, the package Chapman has offered you is very good. Of course, if you can get the “free-ride” described above at a UC, then that would be your best choice. If you aren’t offered that option, I think when you do compare your options you will see that $24K/yr for a college in CA is about what most people pay. EVERYONE I know with kids at UC anything or CSU anything, that don’t have major financial need, are paying this. Now, here is the real issue you need to be looking at when you get all your offers.</p>

<p>If you attend Chapman, your chances of graduating in four years are VERY HIGH, so $24K x 4 = ~100K like you calculated. The reality today is if you attend UC or CSU, the statistics indicate it will take 5-6 years to graduate because the classes are impacted and you can’t get the classes you need. Cal Poly SLO and Pomona typically don’t follow this trend because they are the most difficult CSU’s to get into, but you aren’t guaranteed a degree in 4 years there either. </p>

<p>So, when all your offers are on the table, adjust your calculations accordingly so you can compare apples to apples. </p>

<p>Chapman has a lot of money to give and they are very willing to give it to those that need it and can prove that with the grades. Your need will change every year based on what your mom’s FAFSA calculated as your EFC, but provided her income is the same, your EFC will be about the same. You can definitely work over the summer, during Interterm, and part time during classes and if you could earn $10/hr you can make about 8-10K/yr towards your education. When my S was on academic scholarship and living on campus at Chapman we were also told his award might decrease if he moved off campus. I would call about that one because academic scholarships are not tied to where you live as a freshman and neither are Chapman Grants, so your $33K/yr may not change if you commute, which in my mind is the best scenario for you financially as it is $42.5K/yr tuition and fees if you commute, (my S is doing this) so if you work you could definitely afford $9K/yr.</p>

<p>CC is always an option, and one I personally chose for financial reasons way back when, however, the reality of being able to get all the classes you need to transfer with an AA as a junior after TWO years is almost impossible these days. It is important to understand that. I have family at several of the local CC’s currently and this is definitely the case. </p>

<p>Talk to Chapman again after you get your other offers and see what they can do to help you. They may also be able to help you with Work Study and getting a job on campus.</p>

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<br>

<p>No, they don’t. Most Californians are not paying $100k for their college educations. There are many, many Californians who are commuting to a CC for a couple of years, and then commuting to a CSU for the last two years. Their total costs are probably under $40k. </p>

<p>The low income kids in Calif are getting decent aid with Cal Grants, Pell, and other aid, but then someone else is paying…not them. They’re not paying more than $40k either for their total public college education. </p>

<p>The idea that most kids go away to college is a myth. Most kids and their families cannot pay that much for college.</p>

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<p>The kids I was referring to are those we know who are not attending a CC, do not qualify for financial aid, and chose to go to the UC’s or CSU’s and live on campus. I only know one low income student and she is at UCLA, lives on campus, and is almost on a free ride after grants and such.
A majority of the kids I know who entered college since 2008 have gotten large merit scholarships at private universities which have allowed them to have options. After his merit awards, my son was able to attend Chapman for less than it would have cost him to attend Cal Poly SLO, UCD, UCSD, or UCI. We were as surprised as anyone when we did the calculations.
I’m not suggesting in any way that the OP get into $100K debt without a fairy godmother standing by to pay it off. That is waaaaaay too much debt for a young person to be saddled with. The kids we know paying that kind of tuition, and more (we know several closer to the $200K range) have parents willing to pay the bill. Since that isn’t an option with OP, he/she will probably be best suited commuting since it is a viable and affordable option.</p>

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<p>CPP is a good for CS right now since it’s not an impacted major (you can actually graduate within the normal 4-year period). If you were agriculture/engineering you’ll see yourself taking 5-6 years because of lower div preparations (calc/lower div eng&anat classes are impacted to hell and it’s a prerequisite for future classes) but upper div classes are completely fine.</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much for your insight as I make this incredibly important decision in my life. </p>

<p>I talked with a financial aid person at Chapman. Here’s the info I got : </p>

<ol>
<li><p>My Chapman Grant (100% free money) will be reduced from $7500 to $4500 if I chose to live off campus. With dorms being about $13k, I’ll have $10k to commute/live at home/pay rent + food with. If worse comes to worse, I’ll save about $15k if I live off campus for 3 years.</p></li>
<li><p>My family continues to insist that I go where I want, and they have personally told me that they have my back financially because they know $100k+ is literally impossible for a teenager to handle. My mother even hinted that a member of my family may be fronting the cost of my entire first year so I have nothing to worry about but school, which I would be incredibly grateful for.</p></li>
<li><p>I haven’t looked in depth into Cal Poly Pomona’s programs, mainly because I haven’t received a financial packet from them yet, and at the moment, it’s cheaper to attend Chapman. I’m going to be touring the campus over Spring Break.</p></li>
<li><p>The fact that so many people are unable to graduate from a UC and some CSU’s in 4 years really changes my perspective on the prices of all schools. That information will definitely be in our heads when we make this decision.</p></li>
<li><p>I personally feel like I will succeed at Chapman with a “group of 20 freshmen in CompSci” (Quoted by math Professor at Chapman) than being in a lecture hall with 100+ kids where you hardly speak to the professor in your 4-6 years at school. But wouldn’t everyone?</p></li>
<li><p>I was offered Work Study, which means if I can get a job on campus, (it’s very VERY competitive according to the financial aid counselor) I’ll be able to pay for $12k in loans during my 4 years on Campus. Adding the savings from not housing on campus for 3 years, I’ll be down about $27k from what I thought I’d have to pay. Of course, this is a best case scenario.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>With my family behind me, I think we’ll be able to make this work to where I’ll be able to come out of school with a pseudo-normal amount of debt ($30k-$50k) that I can work off on my own. Although I’m relatively set on my choice to go to Chapman, I would still love to hear your opinions, and I’ll continue to update this thread if anything major changes. Again, thank you all so much for your help.</p>

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<p>

I have yet to see any actual data supporting this belief. As a matter of fact Chapman’s 4 year graduation rate is very similar to UC Davis.</p>

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<p>^yeah, UC’s tend to have a higher 4 year graduation period because of several factors (price being a main one for many people) and that people tend to stick with their major than other uni’s. For CSU’s there are a lot of people doing major changes and for certain CSU’s the 5~7year graduation period is because of major impaction. Civil engineering is so impacted at CPP that some people are taking around 6 years to graduate (some can’t graduate because of bottle necked classes)</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, sometimes parents/family wants something for a kid so badly, they promise the moon but don’t have the ladder to get it. I think it’s time (past time, actually) for your family to put their financial support cards on the table. You are assuming something that is not in evidence, and I think that is dangerous to do. Right now, my advice is to assume NO support from your family; it appears you do not have enough information from them to rely on, and thus cannot make an informed decision if you try to include their “hints.” So discount that (non-)information completely and see what you end up with. </p>

<p>If they do pledge support, you have to have dollar figures. Not hints. And you have to know for how long you can count on their support, whether they are actually in a position to provide it over the time you are in college, and under what circumstances they would withdraw it. Until you have a frank, open discussion with them about money, you should not assume you will be getting meaningful financial support from them.</p>

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<p>*Unfortunately, sometimes parents/family wants something for a kid so badly, they promise the moon but don’t have the ladder to get it. I think it’s time (past time, actually) for your family to put their financial support cards on the table. </p>

<p>If they do pledge support, you have to have dollar figures. Not hints. And you have to know for how long you can count on their support,
*</p>

<p>I agree completely.</p>

<p>If these people are serious, then they should be willing to take the loans out in THEIR names. And, if that’s not feasible, then at a minimum, write up a contract that they will be responsible for paying back XXXX amount within a certain time period. Each person would have their own contract that they would sign and date. Witnesses would also sign and date. </p>

<p>At least that way you would have some recourse (small claims court) if they flaked on their agreements. </p>

<p>So how much will you be borrowing now? (including the fed loans).</p>

<p>BTW…are you planning on commuting? How far away are you? I’m very familiar with the Chapman U area and the traffic is horrific in the mornings and afternoons. You may quickly find that commuting isn’t feasible.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I must concur. Your parents/family must sign on to any loans that you would need to attend Chapman. Otherwise their promises and guarantees mean nothing.</p>

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<p>First of all, the OP isn’t going to be able to get loans in the amount of $25K a year on his own. No one will lend an 18 year old that kind of money. He will be entitled to borrow $5500 his first year through the Stafford loans, with some of it subsidized. The rest, a parent can borrow through PLUS (Direct Parent loans) at a 7-8% interest rate, and if s/he passes the credit check. If not, it’s likely to be even higher rates through private lenders with BOTH student and adult taking out the loan jointly and the amounts going on BOTH credit reports affecting both parties. A student can take out an additional $4k Freshman year if the parent is turned down by PLUS. So yes someone will have to step up and put his credit on the line for the OP to go to Chapman.</p>

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<p>^^^
True that the student will likely need help borrowing, but I’m not sure how much he’d need to borrow the first year if he commutes. </p>

<p>The problem could come in subsequent years if his co-signer no longer qualifies and no one else is willing or able to co-sign.</p>

<p>There was a newish grad who posted a couple of years ago. Her dad co-signed her big loans with the PROMISE that he would help pay them back (I think the agreement was 50%). In the end he wouldn’t pay. The thread went back and forth about whether the newish grad should sue her dad, but that idea kind of lost support. In the end the girl felt that she was going to be stuck with those loans because there hadn’t been anything in writing.</p>

<p>I do think this student needs to get “in writing” how much each relative will pay. People tend to get very supportive/excited at the prospect of a relative going to college (especially if that’s a new thing for the family) and many will promise the moon. However, you’ll really see if they intend to “walk the walk” if you get their “talk” in writing.</p>