<p>lol, yea, but i mean the SAT can be prepped for and doesn’t test how good one is at science. I may do well on the SAT, but I still don’t know if my curriculum in the sciences and maths are lacking when compared to the US or the difficulty of my school. SAT is like a critical thinking test, not really an indication of my curriculum or anything</p>
<p>Anything that’s taught in intro science courses can be learned from scratch with no problem if you are smart enough. As I noted above, I didn’t take any physics in high school, ended up with A, A+ in two semesters of physics at Cornell, and a 15 on the Physical Sciences section on the MCAT. You are way overestimating the utility of knowledge in premed. The whole premed process, in my opinion, is not to prepare you for med school (after all, we don’t use much orgo or physics in med school; and we aren’t required to take physiology, anatomy, or any of the classes we do use in med school) but rather to select for individuals that are smart enough to get through med school by putting them through rigorous science courses like organic chem.</p>
<p>ahh, ok that’s reassuring. I read that Cornell is probably the hardest Ivy school to get high grades in (pretty much meaning the school that gives out the least A’s and such). I know Princeton caps the As and such, but is this true about Cornell? I was pretty interested in the school and would like to go there (if I get sufficient FA). </p>
<p>But, are these rumours true? And btw, on gradeinflation.com (Is this site even reputable lol), it says that Brown’s average GPA in 2007 was 3.61! That’s really high considering the amount of As given out there has increased by about 1.3% since then. So, a 3.63 or so GPA at Brown is average. Is that school the most prone to grade inflation or what lol?</p>
<p>EDIT: norcalguy, that’s exactly what I was thinking before. Why don’t med school make kids take anatomy and physiology in undergrad, that way it isn’t so hard/challenging in med school.</p>
<p>Partially because most undergrad anatomy courses aren’t to the level or in the format that medical schools like.</p>
<p>To give an example, I took histology, a traditional first year med school course, in college. Yet, as a first year med student, despite the fact my overall test scores were in the top third of the class, I was only scoring around the mean on my histology exams. One of the reasons is that I didn’t focus as much on histology since I had taken it in college. But, I think the main reason is that the focus and difficulty of the two courses were so different that it wasn’t an advantage to have taken it in college.</p>
<p>oh, yea makes sense. Another question, I don’t know much about US university reputations, but could make a statement about UT-Austin in comparison to the Ivys/top universities? I want to get a general sense of what US students think of the university. (I know its ranked 47 in USNews, but I don’t want to base it on that, I want to get a sense of what actual US students think about the university. Is it just another huge state school, is it terrible because of how big it is, is it great? Anything you wanna say or have heard)</p>
<p>Also, I heard that UT-Austin is really hard to get a high GPA at. True or False, and why (I’m guessing something to do with the large amount of undergrads. Not sure if this works in one’s favour or not). Thanks</p>
<p>ViggyRam – one point that hasn’t been made on this thread yet is that the Ivys/top universities are really hard to get into, and even more so for internationals, and even more so for internationals that need financial aid.</p>
<p>I don’t personally know anything about UT-Austin but if it is ranked 47 in USNews then it must be pretty good. I’m not surprised to hear that it is hard to get a high GPA there. There are a lot of smart students at State Universities and it is my impression that State Universities don’t have the issue with grade inflation that the Ivys have.</p>
<p>I know Austin, TX but I don’t know anything about UT-Austin. I’m in Michigan, and I don’t know how many people would know too much about UT-Austin around here (maybe I’m an exception, I don’t know…). However, most kids will know many of the Ivies/top schools. Don’t let this change your opinions though, because reputation-wise you’ll be fine at any of those schools. I looked up stats for UT-Austin: SAT 1 Verbal 25th percentile score: 530 SAT 1 Verbal 75th percentile score: 660 SAT 1 Math 25th percentile score: 560 SAT 1 Math 75th percentile score: 690 ACT Composite 25th percentile score: 21 ACT Composite 75th percentile score: 28</p>
<p>It also said there are ~40,000 full-time students, which is quite large (if that goes into your consideration)</p>
<p>yea, I saw those stats on collegeboard. Anyone know anything about the large classes at UT-Austin? Does that play a role in GPA (good or bad)? Is UT-Austin better than TAMU for undergrad science? I know it is better in USNews Rankings, but I know those rankings aren’t totally accurate because funding and student-prof ratios and such play a large role. But, just for the sciences is TAMU comparable or is it well below?</p>
<p>Also, I know a top med school doesn’t matter a lot and so on (that’s a whole diff. topic) but would it be very, very hard to get into a top med school from a school like TAMU compared to coming out of UT-Austin? Thanks.</p>
<p>Class size isn’t likely to matter as far as grade distribution goes. I suppose a small class could theoretically help you if you lucked out with 19 lazy kids in a class of 20. It could hurt you if you ended up with 19 ultra hard working kids too but I wouldn’t worry about such things. I have heard of UTA and I think its a good public school. As far as trying to compare one school</p>
<p>The biggest things to get into medical school, aside from GPA and MCAT scores, are that you have had interesting and meaningful experiences in:
- Community Service
- Medically related volunteering/work
- Research (most important for those wanting to go to a research heavy school)</p>
<p>Everything else that you do outside of these three areas is what makes you unique, interesting, and can only improve your chances. I personally feel that one of my strongest features when applying was my dancing experiences. These three things, especially 1 and 2, are critical to many schools, because it shows both a tendency towards compassion and charity, as well as provides you with a basis to prove why you want to go to medical school. Because of this, here are my personal recommendations on selecting a school.</p>
<p>1) Has a research program that is large enough to sustain undergraduate participation.
Look for schools that have undergraduate thesis projects, undergraduate fellowship positions, etc. A school with Research 1 designation is great, because that means there are tons of research projects going on. If you never publish or present a paper, that’s fine. However, doing so can be a major boost, especially if you are author or co-author, or even 29th author of a paper that makes it into a major journal like Nature. It does not necessarily have to be medically related research, but I would recommend it if you are contemplating MD/PhD.</p>
<p>2) A moderately well known school.
I personally would recommend limiting your choices to one of the top 200 or so schools. You want a school that has had a decent number of pre-meds, because this increases the chances of an admissions committee knowing something about the opportunities available at your school. It also increases your chances of getting good advising from a pre-med office. I am a member of the faction that believes that prestige is not a significant factor in the admissions process. I personally believe that your own merits outweigh the name of your school significantly. This is not to say that I believe a 3.5 is the same as one school than another. Admissions committees often have “experts” on a given school, or look at statistics like the average GPA and MCAT score of pre-meds in past years. Thus, a 3.5 at Princeton might be more impressive than a 3.5 at John Doe public school, simply because the average GPA and MCAT score at Princeton is a 3.5/33, and a 3.5/28 at John Doe. Clearly, it was harder to earn a 3.5 and 33 at Princeton than a 3.5 and 33 at John Doe (though, the equal MCAT scores would somewhat minimize this). Suffice it to say that a 3.5 and 28 at Harvard isn’t going to beat out a 3.8 and 31 at John Doe, all other things being equal. This being said, I feel that opportunities at the more prestigious undergrad schools outside of academics are excellent. However, I feel that any big public school like OSU, ASU, etc will have similar opportunities by virtue of their sheer size. Any school that made it in the top 200 should have enough of everything for you to succeed if you are good enough. If you are good enough at one place, you are good enough anywhere, so long as you aren’t handicapped.</p>
<p>3) A School with a medical school or that is near one.
The inside man always has an advantage. If you went to Harvard College, you will have a stronger shot at Harvard Med. This is because you have three years to build relationships with the medical school, do research under doctors affiliated (and thus get letters) with the school, and become an expert on that school. The opportunity to work with doctors at any medical school probably increases your chances everywhere. There is always the chance that they will be recognized, and its a great way to get insight in academic medicine.</p>
<p>4) Go to a school near a reasonably sized city.
Cities have a lot going for them by virtue of their huge populations. There are all sorts of activities available in research, community service, and just fun things that will make you a more well rounded and interesting person. Being near a city means you will also be near at least a few good hospitals or clinics. This saves you on travel time and ease of access, as it is likely students from your school have already built connections with nearby schools.</p>
<p>wow, thanks for the awesome response. I believe UTA fulfills 1, 2, and 4 of the different aspects you mentioned. The only problem that I had been thinking about before was that it has no med school affiliated. Then again, Rice, Baylor and the other UT campuses don’t either, I believe. TAMU has a med school though.</p>
<p>Now, UTA would have solid research opportunities I would assume, because of the huge size, research reputation and such. </p>
<p>So, class sizes don’t matter. To be honest, I know I will work hard for a great MCAT score and will work my hardest in school. I have some ECs that are pretty unique (travel baseball player, ice hockey referee (I’m Canadian so it’s really intense here lol), baseball umpire and such. I think Austin’s large city will allow me to pursue these activities when I get there. </p>
<p>I just don’t what my GPA to be driven down by going to a large school. I heard that intro. courses at these large schools curve to a C and kills GPA because they are “weeder” classes. Is this true?</p>
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<p>I think this is overblown. I do not perceive not having an affiliated med school as a significant disadvantage. Most students who are performing research in undergrad are doing basic science research anyway, not clinical research (which commonly takes place in hospitals or med schools). In addition, research LOR’s are generally not required or highly valued in the admissions process (they want LOR’s from people who’ve taught you). In addition, you can argue that attending the affiliated undergraduate (especially if it’s a top undergrad that generates a lot of top med school applicants) puts you at a disadvantage for the med school because the affiliated med school can only afford to fill so much of its class from one undergrad. For example, despite receiving interview invitations to Columbia, Mt. Sinai, and NYU (all of which are top Manhattan med schools), I was rejected w/o an interview at Weill College of Medicine, the affiliated med school of my undergrad. </p>
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<p>Weeder classes are needed because there are way too many delusional freshman who think they can make it in med school. Whether it’s in the intro science courses or on the MCAT, the weeding has to take place somewhere. If I’m not cut out for med school, I’d much rather know freshman year.</p>
<p>I agree that it isn’t that big of a deal, but it is a nice asset to have. As far as being put at a disadvantage, how much affiliation did you have at the Cornell medical campus? My main point was that you have the opportunity to ingratiate yourself with the medical school if it is close by. Also, I think Cornell is perhaps the exception to the rule. Not many schools pump out 500+ applicants a year ;). Cornell med also has a pretty small class if I recall correctly. I think you will agree though that Cornell does have a disproportionately high number of Cornelliens in it, even if overall this is canceled out by the sheer mass of your school’s applicants.</p>
<p>I also would argue that medical schools want LORs from people who know you, not just people who taught you.</p>
<p>would weeder classes be at top universities too then? This may be wrong to think, but why would they need stringent weeder classes in top universities? Wouldn’t the majority of kids have a reasonable shot at med school considering they got into the top undergrad to start with? Would the weeder classes at these top schools have curves “anchored” at around a B or B+ instead of a C, for example, at large state schools like UTA?</p>
<p>Having a med school affiliated would be nice to have though. Even if its not a disadvantage it can lead to good networking and opportunities, I’d venture.</p>
<p>By top universities if you mean the top private universities I don’t think they have weeder classes. You’re paying a lot of tuition, it is hard to get in, and their goal is for you to succeed once you are there.</p>
<p>Universities that are state schools can have weeder classes in the pre-med track. I was a graduate student in the math department at a big state university where I was a teaching assistant for introductory calculus. During one of our meetings with the professors in the Fall we were told point blank that they had instructions from the science department to weed out some of the students. There were simply too many students on the pre-med track and they wanted to get rid of the ones who weren’t as smart sooner rather than later. Believe me, we accomplished the goal, that calculus course moved at a very brisk pace.</p>
<p>It certainly felt like a cold attitude to me at the time. I had attended a very small private college where the goal was to help you succeed. But in all fairness some of the students on the pre-med track at a state university like the idea of becoming a doctor but are not studious enough to get through the curriculum. The students who are studious and smart will make it through the first year.</p>
<p>All universities have a desire to have 100% acceptances to medical school. Even top schools can’t expect every one of their students to make it, so they weed out the ones unlikely to have the GPA, resume, or MCAT score to do it.</p>
<p>ok, I see. Would you think my GPA would be lower at a large state school than a top private, considering the fact that you said those top private schools tend to try to help their students rather than weed some of them out? This is considering the same effort at both the top private and large state schools.</p>
<p>And would weeder classes be more difficult to do well if you were in a large class (ie. UTA) or a smaller class size (TAMU)? Would it even matter or not?</p>
<p>I think that, judging by the average GPA and MCAT scores of applicants as best as we can, most people would agree that it is easier to get a higher GPA at most large public schools when compared to a top private school. There are exceptions, of course. You need to understand that weed out doesn’t mean fail out. It just means that they discourage people who aren’t seriously committed to a given field or direction of study to consider other majors. Upper level classes tend to be more scarce and more demanding, that’s the primary purpose of weed out classes. Honestly, I never found the “weed out classes” to be any harder than what came later, I think they just tend to be classes that require a little bit of skill and some work that people perceive as weed out classes due to the fact that a lot of students decide they don’t like the subject/workload and move on to other things. Maybe I am wrong though, and maybe schools really do intend to weed out students with those classes directly rather than by self selection on the part of the students. I really would just suggest you stop worrying about GPAs and such things. That’s what the MCAT is for. If you work hard at your university the variations from one university to another as far as GPA goes shouldn’t be what keeps you out of medical school. If you are the bottom of your class at one school, it is wishful thinking to hope to be the top of another.</p>
<p>Class size really won’t make a difference. The thing that is likely to make the biggest difference is your professor and his/her policies.</p>
<p>aight, thanks a lot for the info. I think I’m pretty much done with this thread unless anyone else wants to use it to continue the topic. I got all the info. I needed. Thanks!</p>