Graduate school after the Navy?

I’ll be graduating next spring from my university with a degree in Fashion Merchandising. It was a jump the gun move pursuing this degree, but I’m in too deep. I was looking into the US naval academy, but the cut off age is 23 and I turn 24 this August and need to finish college. If I had to do it all over again I would have definitely chosen a science based major like Astrophysics, Oceanography, Planetary sciences; etc.

I was considering in joining the Navy after I graduate and apply to Officer Candidate school because I want to have that sense of urgency and duty to protect and serve. I was also hoping to apply to graduate school afterwards and get a masters or PhD in a STEM based field and try to make my way to NASA in the future. NASA is the destination.

Is this plan crazy or am in over my head? Is it possible to further your education with no prior experience? I’ve read that universities have programs where you take the pre reqs for a graduate school; physics, chem, bio, etc.

I do also have the option in graduating with a general studies degree as well. I really regret not choosing the STEM route and I was hoping I could get some feedback! Thank you.

It’s not crazy at all, but it will probably take you longer and you’ll have to put in some extra effort to do it.

In order to pursue a PhD in a STEM field, there are some fundamental things you’ll need:

  1. You need coursework in the field. At the bare minimum, you need to take coursework equivalent to a minor in the field - which is probably around 5-7 courses. To be maximally competitive, you’d need the equivalent of a major, which can be anywhere from 10-15 classes. There some basic foundational courses you’d need in every field (like intro general physics, electricity and magnetism, the calculus sequence, etc.), and most PhD programs like to see you begin to develop a little bit of both breadth (so taking some intermediate and advanced courses across the field of physics) and depth (so taking 3-4 classes within a single area of physics and diving into the 400-level or even a graduate course in that area).

You’ll have to take the majority of these classes in an actual brick-and-mortar classroom, and not online - for a variety of reasons. One I’ll address in #3, but another is that there’s often the perception that online classes don’t give you the depth and knowledge that you need for advanced study. You’ll also need to do them at a four-year college and not a community college (you may be able to get away with doing 3-4 of the foundational classes at a CC, but not most of them - and the upper-level ones won’t be available at a CC).

This may be a little difficult to coordinate with your Navy service, but it theoretically can be done. The Navy also has tuition assistance, so they’ll pay for classes you take up to a certain amount each semester. After 36 months of active duty you also have access to the GI Bill, which you can use to pay for an MA in the field (more on that later).

  1. You need research experience - and this is going to be the part that’s more tricky to get in the service. Research experience is crucial and arguably the MOST important component of your application. Professors want to see this for a few reasons: one, they want to know that you know what you are getting yourself into - and that you won’t try the PhD program for a semester or two, decide it’s not for you, and then drop out. Two, professors use graduate students as their research assistants in the lab in order to keep their labs running and churn out the publications and work that they need to do. You’ll also probably mentor some undergrads in the lab. So they want to know that you already know what you’re doing and can basically hit the ground running when you start your PhD program. Three, students who have some research experience have been exposed to some areas of the field already, and have a better idea of their research interests. This can potentially lead to success in a variety of areas: more publications (because you already know what you want to pursue and will do it earlier in graduate school) and faster time to graduation (because you already have the skills and knowledge necessary to complete a dissertation faster).

Most undergrads get some science lab research experience starting in their sophomore or junior year by volunteering to assist a professor in the lab. You can ask any professor who’s doing interesting research if they need an RA; most of them will gladly take some extra hands in the lab. You start out doing more menial tasks and work your way up. However, the caveat is that professors usually like to take people who have some foundational coursework under their belt, which is why they typically take junior majors and the occasional ambitious sophomore. You can try to find a professor who might take you on ASAP or next academic year - just explain your situation and your interest. Better to ask just in case!

But realistically speaking you are going to have to find a way to get some research experience after college. Most successful applicants in STEM fields have 2-4 years (some or all of them part-time) of research experience before starting graduate school. One way that people do it is taking on lab manager or paid research associate positions in university or private labs, but since you don’t have a science degree that’s going to be a tough sell. Another option is to volunteer as an RA until you have enough experience to work as a paid RA, but that’s hard enough to coordinate with a regular full-time job, let alone service in the Navy. You can still try to do it - and if you are lucky enough to get stationed near the Naval Research Laboratories or on a base where there is active research going on, that might be an avenue in. But you may find that you have to take some time after your service to get this. An MA program is one way to do this (more on that in a minute).

  1. You need at least three letters of recommendation from PhD-holding professors who can attest to your potential in the field, both academically (and your likelihood of succeeding in and finishing a PhD) and as a scientist (are you likely to enter science research and stay there? And how well would you do, do they think, if you did?) This is why you need to take on-the-ground classes - because you need face time with science professors who can write you a letter of recommendation saying these things. This is also a secondary reason that you need research experience, because the best applicants have at least one (and often two) letters from professors who have observed them do or mentored them in research. That way, the professor can comment on your scientific skills and potential to succeed in scientific research, which is the core of any PhD program.

There are other components, like identifying a research area of interest and being able to articulate that in a statement of purpose and GRE scores. #1 and #2 will help you with the research area part - you have to start thinking very strategically about what area of the physical sciences you are interested in. First of all, you have to pick one: like knowing whether you want to go for astrophysics or oceanography. And then even within that, you have to think of very specific research interests. For example, in astrophysics, you might be specifically interested in the discovery and investigation of extrasolar planetary systems around low-mass stars or the relationship between cosmic structure and dark matter at the edges of the universe (I have no clue what I’m talking about; I lifted that from some Chicago astrophysicists’ profiles). You figure this out by taking classes and volunteering in labs.

^Con’t from above:

The easiest way to get all three of these things is doing an MA program in the target field. You will still have to take some foundational coursework as a non-degree student, but you can get away with taking fewer classes because MA programs usually have less stringent requirements. While you’re at the MA program, you’ll take graduate-level classes in the field; you’ll work directly with faculty members on research and get two years of research experience; and you’ll also glean those letters you need. And like I said, if you serve a full term of active duty in the military your GI Bill will pay for your MA (although some academic MA programs in physics come with funding). The Navy may even send you to graduate school so you can come back and be an astrophysicist or oceanographer for them - the Navy has a great need for scientists in those fields, and Naval service as a scientist can help you get into NASA (or NOAA, as the case may be).

Also, what I said above was geared towards PhD programs. You need all of this stuff but less of it if you want to go to an MA program - you’ll still need some courses (but may be able to get away with 5-10 rather than the 10+); you’ll still benefit from some research experience (but maybe 1-2 years will be enough rather than more). You’ll also still need the letters (but all three could be from professors who’ve only seen you in class rather than in your research internship). Of course, the more of it you have the more competitive you’ll be.

Finally, you asked about programs in which you can take prereqs. There are some of those out there - they’re called post-baccalaureate programs. For example, Pittsburgh has one called the [Hot Metal Bridge](Hot Metal Bridge Post-Bac Program | The Dietrich School of Arts & Sciences Graduate Studies | University of Pittsburgh) program. Columbia also has a formal one, although I think it’s limited to alumni of their undergrad colleges (and I can’t find the website, because I don’t remember what it’s called).

However, even at schools that don’t have their own formal post-baccalaureate programs if you have the resources you can cobble together your own either full- or part-time. For example, Columbia’s School of Professional Studies (their continuing-ed, non-degree division) has a whole page about [preparing for graduate school](Academics | Postbaccalaureate Studies Graduate School Preparation | Columbia University School of Professional Studies) since a lot of people take non-degree classes there in order to prepare for PhD and MA programs. They have a few structured certificates but they also have a postbaccalaureate studies team that will give you advisement on applying for graduate school. Many schools have a division set aside for continuing ed that may have this kind of support, so I’d hunt around. It would be awesome to do a post-baccalaureate program at one of the schools at which you are interested in completing a PhD, too.

Thank you so much for the advice!

I know it’s a stretch but I know in my heart that this is what I want to do. I’m tired of all the socializing and partying I have to do. I want to do something that is meaningful not just for me but for everyone as a whole. I want to do big things in life and I’m not gonna let anyone stop me from achieving what I want to accomplish.

I checked online and I would need 26 more credits to graduate after this semester if I switched to general studies. What if I spent those last credits on the general science classes I would need to take to get myself familiar with?
Also it’s 8 years active duty in the Navy correct?

And I just want to thank you again for taking the time to respond with this amount of information. I am most definitely going to follow this like a little route on a map to my destination.

I was researching online and I came across two different graduate schools I am interested in going at some point.
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/content/graduate-requirements-planetary-science
http://www.grad.washington.edu/GradPrograms/grad_program.aspx?progid=599

You need to talk to an officer recruiter to get exact information. It must be a recruiter for officer programs or you will not get the best information. For OCS, I think it’s usually 4+4. 4 years active duty and 4 years selected reserve (non-drilling but able to be recalled to active duty). It also can vary by warfare designator.

  1. Tuition Assitance will not help. The rules changed several years ago and it can only be used for undergraduate classes towards a first bachelors.
  2. It is correct that if the Navy didn't pay for your first degree (USNA/NROTC), then you get the Post-911 GI bill after your four years. It is quite generous and includes a housing allowance.
  3. The Navy does send folks to Navy Postgraduate School in Monterey, CA for Master's and occassional PhD degrees. These are typically after 6-8 years of service. There is also a permanent military professor program but it is highly competitive and is again for officers around the 8-10 year mark, maybe 12 years.
  4. You need to join the Navy because you want to be a Naval Officer or it will be a waste of time and you will be frustrated. Which warfare communities are available through OCS also varies. There have been times when the only option was supply officer. Not a bad choice but not one that will get you to NPS for a Masters in a STEM field. Other times you could go aviator or surface warfare. Talk to an officer recruiter.
  5. NRTOC requires certain majors and a certain math/sciences. Check with the recruiter. You may need to make sure you have certain classes, such as calculus, physics, and chemistry regardless of what your degree is.

@Sportsman88

You can use the Post-911 GI bill for other graduate schools, correct?
I’m also pretty sure I’m not qualified for NRTOC as I graduate Spring 2017.
I’m looking for the best possible route that will hopefully land me at NASA in the future, and coming from Julliet, the best way is by joining the Navy and furthering my education and getting research experience.

But the problem is I looked at the requirements on the NASA website, and you need to have minimum, a STEM based bachelors degree, in which I don’t.

@julliet can you elaborate on this too?

Yes, you can use GI Bill for grad school and generally is better for grad than undergrad because it reduces need based aid at private undergrad and their is no net difference in the cost.

I knew you weren’t eligible for NROTC, just being clear for other posters tha OCS makes GI Bill an option after 4 (?) years. If the Navy paid for undergrad, you have to fulfill initial commitment and then another four years to earn GI Bill.

I don’t know anything about NASA. I would check age limits there as well and understand that there is nothing wrong with pushing for a dream but understand odds might be similar to getting into Ivy, or less, due to the number of interested qualified candidates to positions available.

Thanks for the clarification Sportsman88.

Ooh, that update about tuition assistance is helpful - thanks for that @Sportsman88.

OP, I’m not sure that the best way to NASA is joining the Navy, furthering your education and getting research experience. It is one way to get there, though. NASA scientists and engineers very often have a military background, particularly because veterans get preference in federal government hiring.

As for NASA - where do you see on the website that you need to have at minimum a STEM-based bachelor’s?

I see this page (http://nasajobs.nasa.gov/jobs/occupations.htm) where it does indicate that 60% of NASA’s workforce is professional, scientific, and engineering. That makes sense because NASA does space exploration and investigation, so majoring in a STEM field (or acquiring an MS or PhD in it) is probably a good way to get to NASA. But the other 40% is clerical, administrative, and managerial - things like human resources, budgeting and financial, public affairs, etc. NASA is an organization like any other; somebody’s gotta do payroll.

Are you talking about the astronaut program? Because that’s a whole different kettle of fish.

NASA jobs are advertised on USAJOBS.gov, just like other federal jobs. A quick search shows they are looking for different kinds of positions. There are engineering technicians, research materials engineers, software developers, astrophysicists, environmental protection specialists, physicians, and nurse anesthetists. But there’s also an ad for a human resources assistant and one for investigative counsel. (However, note that there’s just one of each of those, while there are several for engineers.)

Either way, though, that’s a moot point. If a requirement is that you need to have at minimum a STEM bachelor’s degree and you have a PhD in a STEM field, you have exceeded the minimum.

@julliet

This is the link to the page.
http://astronauts.nasa.gov/content/broch00.htm

I was talking about the astronaut program. :slight_smile:

But the requirement is a bachelors in a STEM field, so if I don’t have that but get a masters/PhD in one, will that suffice? I was thinking they were meaning at least a bachelors degree.

Am i just wasting my time then pursuing this dream?

So, you probably already know that the astronaut candidate program is extremely competitive. Dreaming of becoming an astronaut is probably a little like dreaming of becoming an actress or a professional singer…it’s not that it’s not an achievable dream, it’s just that it’s highly unlikely. That doesn’t mean that you should head towards it - especially since being an astronaut requires the sort of education and experience that is likely to lead to other really interesting careers anyway.

The other thing is that the minimum requirements are exactly that - minimums. Given how competitive the astronaut candidate program is, most people have way, way over that.

NASA actually maintains [url=<a href=“http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/astrobio.html%5Dbiographies%5B/url”>http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/astrobio.html]biographies[/url] of their current astronauts on the website. I was curious so I clicked through them, and every single one of them has a bachelor’s degree in a STEM field. The vast majority are either in engineering or the physical sciences (physics, space science); a few are in chemistry; I think there were one or two in biology and one or two in math. They all also have at least a master’s, and many have a PhD. There are a few MDs in there too.

They all also have way more than 3 years of experience. I did a little math for the two most recent classes - the one that entered in 2009 and the one that entered in 2013. They had on average 12.9 and 10.4 years of experience on average…and high-level experience, doing research at government laboratories or serving as high-profile officers and pilots in the military. Between both classes there was one person who had less than 8 years of experience; she was a cancer biology PhD who had developed the first model of smallpox infection and spent her four years leading a team of 14 researchers as a PI at a a prominent national lab (which, let me tell you, is really really unusual for someone with so little experience. It’s a testament to how much of a superstar she is).

So by the minimum standard a BA in fashion merchandising and a PhD in astrophysics might be enough, but when it comes to being competitive for the program? Maybe not.

@julliet

Thank you for guiding me through this. I’ll take everything under consideration and move on from this, hopefully in the right direction. I know it’s a giant leap, but I know I can do better in life than just having a BA in fashion merchandising. I took the easy route, and I’m aware of that, but I’m confident that my resilience and stamina will get me where I want to be.

@julliet

I totally forgot I asked this question, but should I switch to general studies and take the remaining 26 credits after this semester and use them to take science classes before i graduate? Or just stick with Fashion merchandising till the end?

Any answer is just going to be my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. I think it depends on how sure you are that you want to pursue graduate study in the sciences. If you are positive or nearly positive, it’d be better to get as many science classes as you can now while you’re still in school, so I would say yes - change to general studies and soak up all those science classes. Conversely, if you are pretty sure that you don’t want a career in fashion anymore, then changing your major might also be a good move.

Just go in with the full knowledge that a BA in general studies isn’t the most attractive BA for employers - most employers like to see that you’ve got at least some depth in a specific field. General studies just sounds like a random collection of classes. But if you are pretty sure you are going to graduate school (or the Navy, where you’ll get some experience) then it matters a bit less.