<p>So I've heard of graduate student suicides, as undergraduate suicides have apparently declined (at least for MIT :p). I've also heard of cases where the student kills his advisor along with himself. How common are graduate student suicides in relation to undergrad suicides? And what are the reasons for it? Health insurance for mental problems is certainly an issue - as parental insurance plans no longer serve students. And mental health clinics seem to be more catered to undergraduates. </p>
<p>This thread probbaly won't be deleted, but I find it very gauche to start a thread on "Grad vs. Undergrad Suicides." Suicide is not a laughing matter, nor is it something that should be trivialized. Although I'm sure the poster who began this thread did not mean to triviliaze the issue of suicide, the fact remainas that I don't see this thread headed in a positive direction.</p>
<p>Discussion is often necessary if we are to understand this. Certainly, a thread on student suicides in a forum for a particular institution wouldn't be deleted (as the search feature on this website can show us).</p>
<p>There was a case in the early 90's in which a PhD student killed his supervisor and then himself (he may have killed another srudent as well, can't quite remember) in a mid-west university. Sad story.</p>
<p>FIRST - it is not useful to discuss this topic via anecdotes - while it is surely posible to identify certain similarities across instances, non-professionals (and even professionals simply reading a news report) are unlikely to be able to identify exactly what is important and what is not in any given case.</p>
<p>Now for some useful data:</p>
<p>Overall statistics indicate that college students of all age groups have significantly lower suicide rates than their non-student counterparts. The rate nationally is about 15 per 100,000 vs. 7.5 for college students. </p>
<p>Graduate students do have a somewhat higher rate than undergrads but there is no consensus as to the reasons for this. </p>
<p>Health insurance is <em>not</em> likely to be an issue - the vast majority of programs (ALL of the one's I'm looking at) provide subsidized health care plans and require participation.</p>
<p>Also:
[quote]
This thread probbaly won't be deleted, but I find it very gauche to start a thread on "Grad vs. Undergrad Suicides." Suicide is not a laughing matter, nor is it something that should be trivialized. Although I'm sure the poster who began this thread did not mean to triviliaze the issue of suicide, the fact remainas that I don't see this thread headed in a positive direction.
[/quote]
No one is laughing, and no one is trivializing suicide. If we wish to understand something, we must talk about it.</p>
<p>Thank you for posting this link, drbott. It's a very sad story, but very well written. This tragedy must have been almost unbearable for those involved.</p>
<p>In pursuing a PhD, the all-consuming intense nature of the process can easily cause students to lose a healthy perspective regarding their work. Actually, lack of perspective is almost necessary to pursue a subject with the dedication and single-minded focus required for success in many fields today. How does a student find the balance, and still maintain the passion?</p>
<p>I believe Harvard has instituted the "three advisor", or committee model, at least in some departments. This is good. If a student feels he/she has more than one avenue of communication, it may relieve some of the pressure to please one authority figure some students may feel. It also means more than one person is looking after the student's well-being. It's also interesting that many of Jason's friends had at least one outside interest which probably helped to keep them from wrapping their entire sense of self-worth up in their work. </p>
<p>Should graduate departments encourage such "distractions?" I have a daughter starting a program at this institution in the fall, and I know I'll be encouraging her to find an outside activity that will bring her pleasure and help her stay grounded. A running club, a writing group, or a cooking club- all would be healthy distractions and probably work well with the high intellectual demands of a PhD program- anything that gets the student outside of their own field of study for a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately, the type of students that are chosen for these very selective grad positions are often the very students who are vulnerable in these high-pressure situations.</p>
<p>I'd be intersted in hearing how other grad students have handled this problem successfully. How do you balance your life and still maintain your intensity?
How do you make the important breakthroughs without losing your perspective in the process?</p>
<p>The 3-advisor committee is pretty common but in reality, a grad student might never see the other 2. It is quite common to email the others to ask them to be on your committee and never see/talk to them until your defence.</p>
<p>Grad school is pretty cut-throat. If your project loses funding and you can't get a TA position, you're (most likely) gone. Advisors want papers out of you and any care they have of you outside of that is considered above and beyond the norm. They're more likely to be worrying about their own problems. I recommend your daughter choose an advisor with a pleasant personality.</p>
<p>IMHO, suicide among grad students is rare and not a general "problem". Job satisfaction is low but grad students can relatively easily complete a masters and head off to work if they can't stand it anymore. In fact, many do that. Some people might have the warped view that they "have to" get a phd or they'll be homeless but that's the type of thinking that'll give them mental problems wherever they go. Also, international students have a lot more restrictions and they might have to leave the country if they abort grad school and can't find a job within a certain period of time. That might be pressure enough to cause serious problems.</p>
<p>This thread has, in fact, turned in to a very decent one, but I was afraid at the outset that it might become a rather insensitive one. There is nothing wrong with talking about suicide, as long as it is done with the utmost respect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This thread has, in fact, turned in to a very decent one, but I was afraid at the outset that it might become a rather insensitive one. There is nothing wrong with talking about suicide, as long as it is done with the utmost respect.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, I understand the concern. Here, it's not much of a problem, since there isn't any flaming/trolling/baiting here.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some people might have the warped view that they "have to" get a phd or they'll be homeless but that's the type of thinking that'll give them mental problems wherever they go.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hm, I think like that right now. Hence why I'm concerned. :p I'm a lot less secure for academia than drbott is.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
Some people might have the warped view that they "have to" get a phd or they'll be homeless but that's the type of thinking that'll give them mental problems wherever they go.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have the exact opposite fear - that in 4-5 years, I'll be a shmuck with a PhD and no idea of what to do with it, no different from what I am today but for a title before my name.</p>
<p>As long as you don't become one of those PhD grads who would rather be unemployed than work in a job that is "under him," you will be fine. The PhD's who whine about not finding employment are those who don't accept that is out there and have false views on post PhD careers.</p>
<p>You can't imagine how much I hope you are right jmleadpipe! I can't say I've ever known any unemployeed Ph.D.'s personally, but this horrid voice keeps telling me "you'll be over-qualified", "You'll be incorrectly qualified", etc. That it'll have to be all or nothing. While my dream is academia, my real goal is at least providing a VERY modest living for my family and getting to know I enjoyed the road to the Ph.D.....here's hoping you're right and I'll be able to do that :-)</p>
<p>It's not so much not getting a job, as it is, I'll find out my goals did not require a Ph.D. As it is, I'm viewing the whole experience as just a chance to get access to a world class lab for free and see what I can come up with.</p>
<p>My father got a PhD when he was in his forties. After receiving it, he didnt switch jobs or get a huge salary increase, but he certainly doesn't recgret getting it. He says that the experience itself, far from being tedious and frsutrating, was really interesting and enlightening. Also, it has opened up alot of avenues for him that he could have chosen to explore, buit he just really likes his job so hes stayed with it.</p>