Graduated a Year Ago and Still Unemployed

Parents Forum
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<p>Although my two D’s are not in the workforce just yet, for them it’s the polar opposite in this education / experience debate.</p>

<p>D1 is on the brink of finishing her 2nd year of medical school, and has boards in 3 weeks before her rotations start in 4 weeks. She is SO tired of classroom, after 19 years worth of book-learning, and is chomping at the bit to apply it. She can’t wait. BTW, she has held non-medical jobs throughout HS & college (pizza maker, fitness instructor), more of a yin/yang approach to keep her sanity.</p>

<p>D2…is also in a healthcare-related field, and an undergrad junior. Increasingly, she has gotten involved with so much of the major-related experiential stuff–clubs, research, jobs, symposiums, etc.–that it’s affected her grades somewhat. They’re still good, just not stellar. She wants to DO, and although she won’t admit it, studying comes in second more often than I’d like to see. She insists that this is what employers want to see on the resume. I told her I hope she’s right, and have backed way off from any micromanaging tendencies lately.</p>

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<p>Part of the problem with a biology degree is that labs that might use a lot of biology majors might not be located where the new grads are living. For example, in San Diego, we are a biotech hub, so a bio grad would have an easier time finding an entry level job here than in another city, for example.</p>

<p>H was dreadfully under-employed when he graduated with his zoology degree decades ago. But he parlayed one job into another, and then into a third, etc. I hope these kids will get on an employment track and move on with their lives. Right now, they are stuck!</p>

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<p>Another factor is that for many biotech companies…you either need a minimum of a Masters degree or have a stellar undergrad GPA and research experience. </p>

<p>Even with the latter, an older cousin who was a Chem major at Tufts in the early '80s needed a few years from graduating until he landed a job at one of those places. He’s still at the very same company 25+ years later.</p>

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<p>Even in my son’s pre-professional major of computer science, I’m sure his job search was helped by the fact that he had worked full time in the field every summer since he was a junior in high school. </p>

<p>While I have some sympathy for today’s graduates, it’s limited. When I graduated from architecture school in 1982 the biggest architecture firm in NYC had just laid off 300 architects. Luckily I’d snagged a grant which took care of expenses for the summer. My resume was pretty thin and I had very little luck with my job search. I worked briefly in the art department of an urban planning firm, until they too went through massive layoffs, and then I worked for a while at a Caltech library (thanks to having worked in libraries as an undergrad), until I finally found a permanent position close to a year after I graduated from college. I certainly was not sitting in my parent’s house doing nothing.</p>

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<p>I think jnm123’s daughters are the exact example of: “Now how do I advise my kids?” Thanks for posting. My son is burning both ends of the candle and maybe his grades will drop this semester, and that is fine. This thread tells me to coach my kids to get out there and really push for work experience and professional-related EC’s. Those two things create a resume, give the kids something to talk about for interviews, give them contacts in the working world, give them confidence about meeting deadlines and managing projects, and can open their eyes to career development beyond 4 years of undergrad. That really is a lot to juggle for a 20-year-old.</p>

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<p>Hi, it’s me the OP. I’ve enjoyed reading all the responses. I knew that some of them would be critical of me.</p>

<p>I wanted to share my D’s experience so far her freshman year. She is part of an outstanding program at her university for female STEM majors. She has received plentiful advice from several faculty and peer mentors throughout the year. One of the most important things that has been emphasized to the students is the value of an internship. They are encouraged to participate in paid summer internships beginning the summer after their freshman year. My D actually got a head start by working as an intern last summer. She will be returning to the same software development job this summer. She will participate in research with one of her faculty mentors next year. Her peer mentor interned at one of the most highly regarded tech companies in the Silicon Valley last summer. She encouraged my D to apply for a summer internship there next summer. All in all, I think that the university has done an excellent job of educating her and preparing her for a job once she graduates.</p>

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<p>And, some will revert to how bad the job market is, which is true, but what your daughter is doing is preparing for her working future, giving herself some experience in the environment, learning how teams interact, the development cycles, as well as some of the business realities. For so many kids, these are exciting opportunities, a first taste. And, so often, there are lessons that can’t be found in the classroom. College is a transition period to young adulthood- and kids who can find a way to dip their toes in the adult world are doing more to grow than those who treat college as their last hurrah, a cocoon. </p>

<p>I like hearing the tales of the kids who get activated. I like the sense that the next generation is on the right track. Most of us know no one’s life will be spared trials. But, it’s good to hear when kids are developing strengths outside the academic bubble.</p>

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<p>No need to make up fictional characters in order to brag about your daughter. We actually HAVE a bragging thread in the cafe. ;)</p>

<p>Many of us have children already working in their field (NOT just internships, but full employment) AND we still manage to have enough tact to “get” that some are a little bit slower off the line in life.</p>

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<p>Thanks, BerneseMtn. It’s a funny thing–as each of my D’s entered their undergrad work, I was there for them in an advisory capacity (besides their own academic advisors of course) and I could help at the time because the decisions were pretty straightforward, with class selection, workload and whatnot. And I had done some pretty good research per their majors at each of their respective universities.</p>

<p>But as they reached their junior and senior year, with EC’s & work starting to play more a part in the equation, I have–like I said–backed off considerably once I realized that they were 21 years of age and also that I cannot really advise them in a competent manner anymore. Too much I don’t see, know about or WANT TO know about!</p>

<p>'Course, that doesn’t stop them from calling to vent about why they are so busy they have no time to do anything… :)</p>

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<p>When my kids were in High School, they were busy with a lot of EC activities, even during the summers. I wanted them to have this time to build up other valuable skills - so I did nto insisst that they work durign High School. Once my D graduated from HS, I told her, “this is the last tank of gas I will be filling out for you … if you wish to drive, find a job to pay for your gas” . When she realized I was dead serious, she got busy, and found 3 P/T jobs within a week. Her summer was busy - but it provided her with much needed confidence and initial experience. She is a F/T student now, but having been “pushed” to obtain that experience of finding a job , she has become very resourceful in seeking out both volunteer opportunities and jobs for teh summer. So, YES, Parents have a role in getting their kids to gain thsi valuable work experience : an important way to show our kids our love for them, is to help equip them with the skills they will need to survive and prosper in life - i.e. teach them to fish, instead of simply handing them a fish. </p>

<p>Now that my S is graduating from HS, he will hear teh same message from me. He may not like it - but that is life, and he better learn what’s important, sooner rather than later. </p>

<p>As a hiring manager, I can also vouch for the critical importance of doing Internships - especially paid internships - in college, to get a job after graduation. We all look at that part of an applicant’s resume with extra attention and importance - even more than their GPA’s !</p>

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<p>I guess the crux of the matter, of this thread, is what to do when you have students who have graduated and are not working. It is a serious problem for those families when this happens and they don’t know what to do. It’s very easy to say, “throw the bum out”, but the consequences of tough love are not always bearable. </p>

<p>I believe kids should work, but I have known some very, very successful grads who never worked a day in their lives at jobs until they got their first ones out of college. Some parents do not let their kid work jobs, and want them to focus on schools. I am not about to get into a debate about that when I have seen it work beautifully. When it doesn’t work, is when it is a problem. it’s also a problem when college grads who have worked are now lying on the couch, extending that “The Graduate” summer into years. The failure to launch or thrive also occurs when the kids are underemployed. Yes, the MIT grad working a the local yogurt shop is doing better than the one who never worked and is still not working, but I assure you the comfort is not that great. </p>

<p>The scary thing is that it can be a lifetime affliction. I went to a top 25 school, just came back from a reunion, and there are some who never did get on their feet financially, I can tell you. A very dear friend of mine, and a wonderful father, who had a college degree, was a smart, interesting person, just could not get a job that paid a living wage. I watched him try for years, and it just never happened. And he worked most of his life at low paying positions. He just could not break out into anything over a few bucks higher than minimum wage in pay.</p>

<p>I have older kids who are pushing 30 now and a lot of their peers, nearly all of them having been very well educated, are not self subsistant. Some have been at one internship after another, all very prestigious in name and description, but none paying a living wage. </p>

<p>This is a problem and it is not a new one. I’d like to see some advice addressing it, not blaming what happened or what did not happen correctly. What to do moving forward?</p>

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<p>My D worked really hard over the past few months to set up an internship for the summer. She has already started one, even though she has another month of classes, and is still interviewing for another (these are part-time). She has three interviews this week. She is actually in the position of screening internship applications at the place where she is interning now. So there are still opportunities out there. She got these positions because she hustled, and never gave up. She also uses connections- HER connections, friends, alumni, etc. She pursued this like a honey badger. She tells me she sent out over 100 applications. It takes some determination, but there are opportunities out there. The student must be tough and diligent.</p>

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<p>Cpt–it’s a fine line for sure. Had D2 just decided to hammer down with her major, study all the time in lieu of work or clubs, and would exit her undergrad education with a 3.9 GPA instead of whatever she’s going to end up with, I probably on the face of it would be very happy. Now I’m hoping that when the time comes that internships, Master’s programs and prospective employers will look at the body of work on the resume and NOT focus solely on the GPA. I told her to reduce the font size on the numbers! :)</p>

<p>Her advisors at UW-Madison had told her from day one to get involved, which her mother & myself said was fine but ‘don’t spread yourself too thin’. But that’s a very vague statement, isn’t it? What’s the best means to that end, which in my eyes is a steady job following your passion?</p>

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<p>CPT, I think the phenomenon you describe is very different from that of a new grad who is having trouble getting launched.</p>

<p>The guy who troubleshoots the broken copiers at my local Kinko’s-- he’s got a PhD. The wonderful woman at the library who runs the toddlers programs- elite degrees from two universities. A neighbor who gives piano lessons- rumor has it she was on a fast track to a big time performance career. None of these folks are self-supporting-- they seem pretty happy with their lives nonetheless. I don’t know them well enough to know if there were emotional problems or a mental health crisis which derailed them so much that a job which probably pays a little over minimum wage, no advancement opportunities, and no real “career” type benefits is satisfying, but it’s none of my business. Fortunately all have family safety nets to help pay the rent-- and I guess that’s what family is for.</p>

<p>So sure, there are plenty of adults whose actual career paths don’t seem in synch with where they were heading at age 20. I don’t think that’s because they graduated into a bad recession and didn’t have any internship experience!!!</p>

<p>The biggest favor one can do one’s kids (IMHO) after graduation is to explain that while you will love them forever, your financial support ends (name a date). They can work at a fast food restaurant, they can shelve books at the library, they can teach basketball in an after-school program at the Y if they’re unable to launch immediately into the career they thought they wanted. But sitting on the couch is not an option. If teaching basketball part time doesn’t pay the rent, they’re welcome to stay in their old bedroom and you can figure out a nominal rent to charge which is less than a landlord but more than zero.</p>

<p>The kids I observe in their 20’s who have failed to launch (unlike the ones I describe above- who are in their 40’s and are all working for pay, even if not in highly paid jobs) are either “waiting out the recession” (a hilarious idea… as if a year of unemployment will make you more marketable when the economy turns around) or still acting like Groucho Marx, having determined that any company that would hire them for sure isn’t worthy of them.</p>

<p>No full time jobs? Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity and learn to install sheetrock. Volunteer at your local historical society and teach yourself archival techniques. Volunteer at the United Way and learn Raiser’s Edge (the primary software package used by fundraisers). Get a part time job stocking shelves at Walmart and volunteer to run a voter registration drive for your town. Volunteer to coordinate Press for your local mayoral or congressional race. Volunteer for either Romney or Obama- one or both of them will be visiting your state in the next 90 days, and they need boots on the ground coordinating transportation, media, logistics, etc.</p>

<p>This is the stuff an entry level resume is made of. Initiative, waking up in the morning, organizing, having a skill, getting stuff done. Sitting at home updating your Facebook status and texting your other unemployed friends doesn’t move you forward. Heck, when you’re done installing sheet rock, learn to snake a sink and repair a broken toilet.</p>

<p>6 months of this and you’ve actually got something for your resume. Think ahead. You may not want a job in the building trades, but what about hotel management? hospital management? real estate development? I’d rather hire a new grad who had actually worked on a construction site- and that’s what Habitat is- a bunch of construction sites-- than a kid with a degree in real estate management.</p>

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<p>I guess the fear is that the underemployed, underpaid 20, 30 year old is going to turn into a 40, 50 year old in the same situation. it happens is what is scary.</p>

<p>I know a number of kids who are working, at presiigious internships, as I mentioned, and some wonderful causes as volunteers, and some have some nice sounding jobs too, but they are approaching or are in their 30s and are not self sufficient. The kid on the couch is a problem too. I just don’t see any good way of dealing with this.</p>

<p>DH has a colleague who has one “on the couch”. Nearly lost him when they threw him out, and they could not bear to cross that line. So he’s back on the couch. I don’t know what is wrong with him; he seems perfectly fine to me, but refuses to do anything more than a few small things a day. The mom at this point, is still grateful is alive and is not in jail and is not doing something illegal, as she has nephews/cousins in that situation. My one cousin has a son in jail, and is dreading his release. He was a promising child that crossed the legal line and got caught and convicted. From college to jail. </p>

<p>The stories are not all the braggin’ ones.</p>

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<p>^ my concern is that the next time we have a 2008 crisis, I want my kids to be among those who can pick up the pieces. If there’s a crisis or layoff in their futures, when they have kids and a mortgage, I don’t want them to be lazing at home, waiting for the right opp. Or blaming too-high expectations or their need for a rest.</p>

<p>My neighbor kid hasn’t worked a full week since graduating and is not looking. She grad’d pbk and that was 5 years ago. She does not help mom…but she does call her, once in a while, from her 3rd fl room.</p>

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<p>It is tricky encouraging (or forcing) a D or S to work/intern if there is the risk it will reduce the GPA. Not working runs the risk of the fostering the world’s next great pampered 30-year old couch potato. It turns out, risk is always there when making decisions so you just got to know your own S or D and what they can handle. </p>

<p>Make the best decision you can with the information you have and very important … don’t look back and beat yourself up if it goes wrong later. That is wasteful energy. Don’t get into ruts and regrets … do what you think is best and adapt to the conditions you have later. I can already see that my older son spent wayyyyyyyy too much tiem in sports and even though it did not reduce his GPA it did change his priorities. I can already see that what he thinks is a productive summer is not what I think is so that is the next battle ground. </p>

<p>I am seriously thinking about taking or limiting his cell phone. </p>

<p>If he does what he is supposed to do he gets the cell back. If not, the cell is going for a little swim in deep water with concrete slippers on. I’m prepared to play tough if necessary. Do what I want or the cell gets it. I’m sorry, I’ve been watching too many gangster movies lately apparently.</p>

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<p>My kids have never had difficulty finding jobs or opportunities. The issue mostly seems to be finding the time to do all the things they have the chance to do. Both just do very well at work. The oldest went from her first internship to full pay employment in her field, and it has been challenging for her to maintain her 3.5 GPA while working and having a social life, though it has worked, though she is very much looking forward to the summer and “only” a fifty to sixty hour work week. My youngest got a job to finance her part of her first car and was so beloved by her boss, I finally had to call the chef/owner and ask her to please point out to her that a business degree from a university would be a good idea since her parents are willing to pay.</p>

<p>Luckily her boss agreed with me and we are now all on the same page.</p>

<p>But… I think some kids really need to understand that they don’t have to have the perfect job at first to make their parents proud. We live in a relatively affluent area, but I also volunteer tutor at the local community college. I have noticed that the kids in our area from successful families believe they “should” be doing a bigger thing, whereas the kids at the CC think a great entry level job is a thing to really go after. </p>

<p>Kids need to be told, “find a few things you can see yourself doing all day” and just get started. When they call you to come work extra, go work extra. I never once had to tell my kids to go the extra mile, but I did have to ask them to occaisonally prioritize their grades over work. It is difficult to do everything.</p>

<p>One thing that is pointed to, over and over again, is that those who are successful are those who would rather be in action and getting things done. I want my kids to take pride in their work. I don’t care if their work is digging up weeds. Be the best weed digger you can be.</p>

<p>Some people, think, want the title but not the work. In the end, it turns out to be about the work ethic. Some very brilliant people come to the end of the line when school ends, whereas some who were not the “best” students begin to come into their own when the schoolday ends and work begins.</p>

<p>I don’t know how you teach work ethic. I can’t tell you how much I wished you could teach “wanting to get your homework done” to my youngest, but I never could get her to care about it. Now, she does it, the way she brushes her teeth or runs her 3 or 4 miles a day, or whatever. But, she doesn’t want to and if school was “life” for her? It would not be a good thing.</p>

<p>Maybe some of these kids who can’t get launched as workers should go and teach high school? If that was their best point?</p>

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<p>I was right with you, nodding as I read… Right up to this statement: “Maybe some of these kids who can’t get launched as workers should go and teach high school?”</p>

<p>These are exactly the people who our public schools do not need as teachers!</p>

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<p>I “get” why you are saying that Eastcoast, but I was just thinking: find something you are passionate about. Maybe, at least some of them are passionate about school and learning?</p>

<p>I could be wrong.</p>

<p>But, I confidently believe that everyone has something they are very, very good at and the trick is to find out what that is. JMO.</p>