GRE Disappointment -- Any Advice?

Parents Forum
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<p>My d. absolutely LOVED the computerized GRE, but she’s a bubble queen. The trick is to get all the early questions right. If you get those wrong, the questions get dumbed down, and it is hard to recover. And there is no going back. </p>

<p>My d. hadn’t taken a math course in six years, and came home with a GRE math score higher than the average entering engineer at Caltech. Go figure. (She 800ed the verbal, but she had done that with SAT when she was 13. And, yes, many schools use the scores in awarding financial aid, or so we were told.)</p>

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<p>Momzie brings up an excellent point about financial aid. My daughter had low GRE scores, did not prep much at all but was accepted at NYU, George Washington and is now attending Vanderbilt. However, her financial aid stinks and she’s pretty sure that’s tied to the GRE scores and her major. I agree that it would be worth it to take a prep class. My daughter would have done that if she had known the benefits. She’s paying for grad school entirely and has had to take out more loans then she anticipated.</p>

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<p>This will not be true for the new GRE btw, so that might help reduce some of the nervousness from taking a computer test. Instead, it will just adjust the questions you receive after each section.</p>

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<p>The math test works the same. It’s an adaptive format, i.e., it adapts to the test taker. If may start with a medium question, and if you get it right, you get another medium question with slightly increasing difficulty. If you get the first question incorrect, the computer then gives you an easier question. if you get that one correct, back to medium level…</p>

<p>re: NYT article. No too well done, IMO, since it mixes apples and oranges. Top law (professional) schools are ALL about gpa+test scores. Top business schools are primarily about work experience. PhD’s programs?</p>

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<p>OP here. First of all, thanks for all your responses. Seems to be a fair amount of contradictory advice regarding taking the GRE more than twice. Perhaps the best approach for her would be to commit herself to a regular course of study using PowerPrep and one or more printed study guides, then take the paper test on October 15. The only problems there are: 1) will she apply herself to a study regimen? She used PowerPrep before her first GRE but how intensively I can’t say; 2) will the 10/15 results be sent to her programs in time? She’ll need to contact the programs to determine the answer to that question.
Astrophysicsmom – Good guess. My D indeed suffers from test anxiety. She doesn’t get excessively stressed out over college tests but standardized tests wreak havoc on her nervous system.
Sunshinestatemom – Unfortunately, all of the universities that offer her program require the GRE General Test.
Mom2collegekids – I understand the GRE V doesn’t correlate closely with the SAT CR and W, but you’d think that someone who scored in the 99th percentile on the SAT CR and 92nd percentile on W would do better than 80th percentile on the GRE. Her M score was much weaker but her grad programs don’t give as much weight to the quantitative.
Momzie – You are full of good news! Actually, I am not surprised to hear that GRE scores are a determining factor in financial aid. All the more reason it is imperative my D do well. We won’t be able to help her financially with grad school as we’ve paid her undergrad and will soon be doing the same with her younger sister.</p>

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<p>I also have test anxiety, and I took the GRE twice. I was more concerned about my quant score, since I’m in a STEM field. So I didn’t study any verbal between tests and my verbal score still went up 100 points. </p>

<p>I think it was a combination of being less nervous (since I knew what to expect the second time) and the verbal section having some inherent randomness to it. The verbal section the second time around was just “easier” for me.</p>

<p>Honestly, when I took the GRE the second time, I thought I had done something horrifically wrong in the first few questions, because all the words I got were “easy.” Since it’s adaptive, I thought it must mean that I was making a lot of mistakes!</p>

<p>I’m sorry I can’t offer any better advice. You might want to try the Graduate School forum. They have a whole section on GRE prep.</p>

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<p>I really think the problem here may be the CAT test format. If I’m correct, it is not just that the test is given on a computer, but the test is designed entirely differently. In a computer adaptive test you are given a medium difficulty problem to begin with. If you answer it correctly you are given a harder problem, if not you are given an easier problem. You are not able to go back and review answers. If you make a silly mistake on a relatively simple question early on, you may not be permitted to even see more difficult questions which you may be capable of answering; hence your score is limited by your early performance, with no review allowed.</p>

<p>I’d retry with the new, more “typical” format.</p>

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<p>CountingDown - Maybe there are MIT PhD programs that don’t require the GRE, but your blanket statement is wrong. For an Econ PhD they not only require the GRE but according to their website “There is no minimum GRE test score required, although the faculty is most interested in applicants with the highest quantitative scoring.” (translation: you basically need an 800 on the quantitative)</p>

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<p>*It’s my experience that GRE scores are a major factor in financial aid offers for grad school. </p>

<p>Momz, what fields are you referring to? I thought in stem fields, if you are accepted into PhD program, there was funding for a few years, as long as student was progressing as expected.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Yes and no. Some schools give funding to all PhD STEM students (but they don’t accept many students), and some schools accept more students, but only give funding to high scores. However, either way, it takes high scores. </p>

<p>Not all PhD STEM programs have funding or have full funding. If you go to the forums where STEM kids post where they’ve applied and where they got funding, you’ll see many were accepted without any funding at all…or with tuition only. Some schools only award funding or full funding to a few students…usually those with the best scores. </p>

<p>PhD STEM (funded) acceptances are often low in number - like 10 per program. When son went thru the process last year, we were surprised how few were accepted at each school…even his “safeties” (ha ha…they only accepted 10%…which was shocking to learn). </p>

<p>If I remember correctly, some schools that provide full funding for PhD STEMs, get their money from some companies that endow a student. For instance, I know that Canon endows a few PhD STEM students at a few designated universities. </p>

<p>We’re pretty convinced that my son’s GRE scores (regular GRE and GRE math subject) were the tipping points. He had a 1570 GRE (Q800 V770) and a 880 Math Subject GRE and that seemed to make the difference. These top schools are only accepting like 3% of STEM applicants - all fully funded. Everyone has a 4.0 (or close). Everyone has great LORs. Everyone has research experience. The tipping point can be your scores…because schools report their avg scores - so they want high scores. He was accepted to every school he applied to, all with full funding, which is why we think his scores made the difference - especially since he only went to a mid-tier flagship for undergrad (Alabama). </p>

<p>Each school told him that they rarely see high Verbal scores with their STEM applicants. So, if you can get a high score there, that is good. </p>

<p>as mentioned earlier…he took the regular GRE twice…first time Q800 and 750V which annoyed him because of lack of sleep. I know it sounds crazy to retake, but he insisted - he’s kind of nutty about the Verbal thing. He’s one of those grammar/vocab nuts. He still wishes he got the 800 in V as well. :rolleyes: </p>

<p>I don’t believe that MIT doesn’t care about GRE scores. If so, they wouldn’t require them. The purpose of GRE scores (regular and subject) is to determine the validity of a person’s GPA. If a student has a 4.0, but his scores are modest, then that suggests serious grade inflation. </p>

<p>The same goes for other tests…MCAT, etc…</p>

<p>Tip…don’t bother visiting before you’re accepted. Once you’re accepted, many schools will pay for your visit (trans, hotel, food). That is a big savings!!!</p>

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<p>*My d. absolutely LOVED the computerized GRE, but she’s a bubble queen. The trick is to get all the early questions right. If you get those wrong, the questions get dumbed down, and it is hard to recover. And there is no going back. </p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Yes…the current GRE is “computer-adapted”…the questions get harder if you answer correctly…and get easier if you give a wrong answer. Some have said that it’s annoying because if you miss one early question, it doesn’t seem like you can get a high score. But, I don’t know if you can then get yourself back on the harder track???</p>

<p>The harder questions are “worth more” than the easier questions.</p>

<p>And, you can’t go back and correct an answer or skip questions and go back.</p>

<p>The new GRE (I believe) will allow you to skip and go back…if so, I don’t see how it will be computer-adapted…but, who knows. lol</p>

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<p>Thinking out of the box:
I may be wrong here, but I think that for grad school, the equivalent of “SAT Optional Colleges” may be “Universities in the UK and Canada”. Has she considered, for example, the University of Toronto? I don’t think they care about one’s GRE scores, so she wouldn’t have to worry about it if she were going there. (For those of us here in NE Ohio, NW Pennsylvania, and Western NY, Toronto feels so “close.” I don’t know about their History of Science and Tech program but a lot of their academic programs are outstanding.)</p>

<p>Also, at least in some fields, programs vary on how much they care about GRE scores and some departments may require the GRE because their university requires it for all grad students, not because the department itself (who makes the admissions decisions) cares much about the GRE. She could talk to someone in her department at the schools she is most interested in; she may be pleasantly surprised.</p>

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<p>Sigh, GRE scores… It’s the MATH GRE that differentiates those hopefuls and a top score of 990 (many or most will have the 800 on the regular GRE math section).</p>

<p>Good luck to her. Do remember to not drink too much caffeine beforehand, and to remember the bathroom beforehand.</p>

<p>Wonder if she’s interested in UW-Madison’s excellent History of Science program- PM me later on if that school is a possibility.</p>

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<p>The new test will be adaptive by section, so if you do well on the first section, then the questions in the second section will be harder, but if you don’t do so well, the questions will be easier in the second section.</p>

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<p>*hopefuls and a top score of 990 *</p>

<p>the GRE subject test for Math was redone several years ago (2001) to make it more difficult because too many were getting such high scores that it was hard to determine the top students. </p>

<p>It is now more difficult and has been rescaled. Those with scores in the high 800s are now in the 96th+ percentiles.</p>

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<p>And the math competition remains brutal- worldwide… But most are not concerned about that, not trying to hijack this thread. Good luck to OP’s D.</p>

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<p>Oops. Should have clarified about MIT. For the comp sci PhD program there, they do not look at GREs, probably correctly assuming that most applicants will have an 800 quant.</p>

<p>bluebayou, the numbers on the about pages looked low to me, too – but the ETS report was more interesting and had fairly current data.</p>

<p>S reviewed for the Quant part of the GRE by taking the practice Math subject test. Took the practice stone-cold one morning, not having looked at math in several months. Got a 78%tile, which he figured meant he’d be fine on the GRE Quant. He was right. Still plans to take the math and CS subject tests, probably this fall, and will study for those.</p>

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<p>I recently took the GRE. My approach to the Quant section was just the opposite to that stated above. I assumed that every problem, no matter how intimidating it looked, could be solved with basic, nonobscure high school math. In all honesty: I was not disappointed.</p>

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<p>It’s interesting how varied the responses are on this question, and how different people’s experiences have been. (I bow in deference to Polarscribe, Countingdown’s S and everyone who scored high on the Verbal section, for sure!!!) I was mostly a “casual observer” this time last year as D1 was starting her grad school apps in earnest, and learned quickly how “it depends” is pretty much the answer to every question one can have about grad schools, the application process, GRE’s, etc. What schools look at/care about varies so much even between departments at the same university. In her case, there was only one school that had GRE “minimums” (one had to score above a certain level just to make the first cut), but across the board all of the competitive schools on her list really downplayed the significance for the general GRE…the subject level test was more important, but probably one of the lowest factors in determination. I also watched the results threads on another grad forum (since nothing comes close to the value of College Confidential when it comes to grad schools); it was about as sobering as the HYPS “results” threads here on CC each spring…certainly there are no guarantees, regardless of your background, grades, recs, research, and GRE scores in terms of grad school acceptances. There was also a big difference between STEM expectations/offers vs. non-STEM fields.</p>

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<p>ADad, what prompted you to take the GREs?</p>

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<p>I have a D with test anxiety, esp Math. She took the SAT three time, and after two times on her own, she had a math tutor to help her calm down and practice. She finally got a decent score (for her) the third time. Not great, but decent.</p>

<p>Fast forward to the GRE. She planned to take a prep course over the summer and take the new GRE in mid-August. Then in mid May, her top choice for her Masters posted that students should take the old GRE, since scores from the new would not be available until mid November, even if taken in August. New scores would be too late. So the panic set in. She was looking forward to the NEW verbal and being able to use a calculator for the NEW math. Now she had to HURRY and prep, take the test no later than end of July, and prepare for the adaptive old test. OMG. I was anxious for her. She found a prep course that would end in time for testing on July 20. Time enough for a reschedule in case of an emergency BUT NOT TIME ENOUGH FOR A RETAKE of the old GRE. </p>

<p>The prep class did her good. And she had access to either 6 or 8 full sample computer adaptive tests. She practiced and practiced. She broke out with the worst acne she has ever had, lost weight, and battled her 2 summmer A classes (with no summer B classes so she could prep for the GRE, except she was now taking it during summer A). She was 400 miles away and on her own. But she was self-motivated to do well. </p>

<p>She did so well she surprised herself. And she did way better on the Math that we ever expected. Since she did not prep for Verbal much, and focused so much effort on Math, she didn’t do quite as well on Verbal as she hoped, but blew away the Math. And her individual scores and combined score will at least get her application “a good look.” </p>

<p>I now believe in a prep class for those with test anxiety. And practice with all available practice tests, whether via PowerPrep or the prep company. If you take it on paper, practice on paper. If you take it on the computer, practice on the computer.</p>