<p>I also posted this on the Grad School forum, but they get relatively little traffic and over the years I've found that this forum is full of posters with excellent advice....so here goes:</p>
<p>My daughter took the GRE a couple of weeks ago and froze up. Lack of sleep and the first time taking a computerized test, but excuses aside she just had a terrible experience and didn't perform up to her capability (she scored about 300 points below her SAT M & CR). So now she has to take the test again, but in the new format. She feels much more comfortable taking the paper test, but that won't be offered until October 15. Would it make any sense for her to take the new GRE at a test center in late August or September for practice? If she doesn't meet her score objectives she could then take it on paper on October 15. But would taking it 3 times harm her chances at Top 20 grad schools?</p>
<p>The rest of my daughter's application should be competitive: Double major in biology and history (with corresponding GPAs of 3.8 and 4.0) at a top 40 LAC; overall GPA in the 3.6 -- 3.7 range; strong recommendations, great writing samples; research experience in both biology and history; TA experience; demonstrable campus leadership. </p>
<p>My daughter hopes to pursue the PhD. in the History of Science, Technology and Medicine (or one of its several variations). Her goal is to teach at a SLAC, but she is aware of how competitive jobs in academia can be. Any suggestions as to what course of action she should take?</p>
<p>I think she should wait and take it on paper, especially since her score was so far below her SAT. I have heard nothing but negative things about computer-based GREs.</p>
<p>I don’t think taking it 3 times will hurt her chances and I’d suggest that she take it again. Does she have a history of test anxiety? If so, then maybe waiting until October 15 would be the best course of action.</p>
<p>When D took it last August, she was really disappointed in her Verbal (or whatever they called it) score. It was crazy hard…in looking at the study guides, it looked like obscure vocabulary that no one (normal at least) would ever use! Since her area of study is in science, her lower than expected score was the only chink in her applications, and she did fine. (altho looking at the “average GRE scores” at the schools she applied was pretty depressing early on). One would hope that 4 years’ of college and the recommendations of professors, etc. would carry a lot more weight than an arbitrary test for your D as well.</p>
<p>The verbal score on the GRE is not comparable to the CR score on the SAT. </p>
<p>My son took the GRE twice. The first time he took it (big mistake) was on a day when they only had a 6 am test time. He was so nervous that he’d oversleep that he couldn’t go to sleep the night before. He did fine, but knew he could do better with sleep!</p>
<p>He took it again ( a noon test time) and felt much better. </p>
<p>He’s starting his PhD in Aug at a top 20 school.</p>
<p>You might want to double check application deadlines to make sure that the October 15 date is early enough for schools to get her scores. I know my programs said that I needed to take the GRE by October 1.</p>
<p>Also, your daughter could take practice tests on the computer in order to prepare for the computer-based GRE. ETS has a free downloadable program from their website called PowerPrep that has exercises and practice tests, which are all in the exact same format as the actual computer-based GRE. It even gives scores at the end of the test. I found that this program was a pretty accurate predictor of how I actually did on the GRE.</p>
<p>When I first started practicing I was horrible at taking the test on the computer, but if you do enough times it gets a lot easier. I spent about an hour a day for 6 weeks doing practice problems and tests and this really helped me. I would suggest buying a book (if she hasn’t already) and using the PowerPrep software.</p>
<p>Also, it is really nice being able to type essays as opposed to handwrite them!</p>
<p>As you can see, the percentiles for the Verbal are nothing like the CR section of the SAT.</p>
<p>A student can have a 680 in the Verbal and be in the 96th percentile…but look how low a 680 is in the Quantitative…66th percentile.</p>
<p>That said, I wouldn’t dismiss the Verbal section. A high score there can help your app. Lots of kids have 800 in the Quantitative, so to give yourself an edge, a high score in the Verbal can help…especially for PhD students since those students are expected to do research and write/publish.</p>
<p>I agree with neuro’s suggestion for your daughter to use the PowerPrep for practice taking a computerized test. It’s important to get the hang of that. It’s very different from a paper test. For one thing, you can’t skip over certain questions and then go back and fill them in later. You just get one shot. </p>
<p>Also, apparently, the machine calibrates itself to your correct or incorrect answers. In other words, if you answer a couple of questions incorrectly, the machine shoots you easier ones, but that means you can’t accumulate enough points for a high score. So you have to start out strong and keep answering the harder questions.</p>
<p>Also, I’m not an expert, but from what I understand, it isn’t good to take the GRE more than twice. It’s not like the SAT in that regard. So I wouldn’t recommend taking the actual test as practice. That’s what the PowerPrep is for.</p>
<p>And yes, the GRE verbal section is crazy difficult, and my daughter said that the vocabulary words are sprinkled throughout the verbal part, so you can’t avoid them. But with some study and practice, a bright person can do well.</p>
<p>Yes, you can’t pick and choose which scores you send, nor is the GRE superscored - schools will see every test taken, and having three or more GRE scores is… not perceived as a good thing.</p>
<p>I have one of those mythical 800 verbal scores on the GRE… I guess I’m not normal? </p>
<p>I understand, though, because my quant score was only 540 - that test was full of obscure mathematics that no one (normal at least) would ever use! ;)</p>
<p>S1’s friends all grumbled about the Verbal GRE. Supposedly the new format drops the analogies. DH complained about S1’s verbal score til we pointed out the percentile. </p>
<p>For programs S1 is considering, the schools all talk about percentiles rather than hard number scores.</p>
<p>S did very well on the GRE, but I have no doubt he’d trade 100 points on the verbal for another .3 on his overall GPA. His major area GPA is excellent – overall…well, the Chicago Core is brutal, even if one loves the classes.</p>
<p>If I may interject a note of optimism, from what I understand, graduate school admissions in general are very different from undergrad. The GRE score is a part of that, but it’s seen within the context of the applicant’s qualifications. Recommendations and the statement of purpose are very important. Some people feel that the SOP is THE one most critical element.</p>
<p>Just gently poking fun at the issue of perspective. I’ve seen so, so many people talk about the GRE quantitative section as if it’s so easy, a caveman could do it… while the GRE verbal section is proposed as an impossible challenge.</p>
<p>For me, it was the other way around. I’ve struggled with math forever, and have never taken a course in the subject beyond statistics. (Nor do I ever intend to.) Writing and reading comprehension, on the other hand, have been my strengths.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I’m buying those numbers posted on those links counting down. </p>
<p>Duke actually posts its numbers for PhD programs by department. Duke’s History program, has a mean VR of 670. Duke’s bio program has a mean of about 600 VR, but it has been as high as 675 in a previous year. Cognitive Neuroscience = 674. English = 670.</p>
<p>OP - I think you’d enjoy reading this article about the admission process to grad school. It’s from the NYT who had a whole Education Life section about grad school this past weekend. I think what you want to know is not should my daughter take the GRE three times (not recommended BTW), but what’s involved in getting in.</p>
<p>Very interested bystander here. DS#1 is rising college senior, will take GREs right before going back to school. I loved pouring over CC when he was a hs junior and senior and feel like I could be a college counselor myself at this point, but my last interaction with grad school applications/testing was back in the early 80s. I just am not at all sure how to counsel him through this process so will be reading threads like this closely.</p>
<p>I thought I’d read that many people only take LSATs once? Because all scores are sent and it looks bad to take many times? Can someone tell me about GRE scores? More like SATs? Or depends on school as to whether or not they see multiple sittings?</p>
<p>(And I’m not trying to highjack, but another question I’ve had is about deferring an admission. DS would like to apply to grad school but is also thinking he’d like to take at least a year off after college graduation. Are grad school admissions usually deferrable?)</p>
<p>It’s my experience that GRE scores are a major factor in financial aid offers for grad school. Pay the money and have her take a prep course. Even if you pay 2,000 dollars for prep at Stanley Kaplan or somewhere, it might make the difference between a full ride and having to pay. You will not regret spending this money.</p>
<p>Momz, what fields are you referring to? I thought in stem fields, if you are accepted into PhD program, there was funding for a few years, as long as student was progressing as expected.
CD, is that true about MIT?</p>
<p>Polar, congrats to you.</p>
<p>Several years ago I had to take a computerized test in another state. They had mixed up my name (using first name as last–don’t ask me how) and I was frazzled when finally got to start. If I went to review answers, it was tough. It was my first time taking a computerized test, and I had no idea how to mark questions to review.
I don’t know why they developed the GRE Verbal so it adjusts your score after first few points. I think mot people are nervous at first. The worm got his lowest V score ever, but didn’t bother to retake the exam. On the CV, I think one can put their SAT/ACT scores, so a low V on GRE could be seen as an anomaly.</p>
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