Great Article : What Happens After Music School

https://www.sfcv.org/article/sink-or-swim-what-happens-after-music-school?fbclid=IwAR2tw7-dcPCXllcECom8vj0LYxDHPdgJOHdy2LFiCCl11adr6igeCtviXZM

Thanks for sharing! SFCV.org is really expanding its coverage. I love articles like this with personal stories.

And here’s another recent article about how musicians are taking their future into their own hands: https://www.sfcv.org/article/artists-on-their-own

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Very nice! Thanks for sharing.

Like many articles on classical musicians, one of the inferences is that the endgame for instrumentalists is “winning” a full-time orchestra job. This is probably even truer for certain instruments where there are fewer freelance options. But just from my own anecdotal experience having lived my life on the fringes of this industry, it’s important to note that a significant percentage of instrumentalists do not look for orchestral careers. My own daughter could have (or could still if she wanted to) go after and likely win such a job, but she is firmly in the camp of those who prefer a more varied career. Looking at her “class” of friends (around her age, which is 26, two years out of Masters), all of whom went to conservatories like Juilliard, Curtis, NEC, etc., about half have gone on to jobs in major orchestras (or are still on the audition circuit/taking trial jobs) and the rest have chosen varied freelance careers that include multiple performing/touring ensembles, some chamber orchestra work, sometimes part-time full orchestra work, and of course teaching. A few friends have gone totally to the Broadway and touring show circuit, which is highly lucrative (although artistically not something my daughter would be interested in.) And, of course, some have left music for medical school, law school, the business world. All are fine choices.

The people I know who have majored and are working in music, theater, performing arts areas are generally giving much more varied lives than those in the article. Not that there is anything wrong with having orchestra performance as a primary goal, but I feel like this isn’t fully telling the story of modern working musicians.

@glassharmonica Thanks for your balanced view and post sharing from your direct observations. I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is very important for us parents of possible future musicians and students on this forum to get this perspective on wide ranging options and opportunities as well as challenges.

We had long discussions with my D as she was trying to make up her mind on the path she wanted to take. Conservatory path or dual degree music + lib arts etc. This forum and the thread on this very topic was very helpful in giving her different view points. So were her current and past teachers of course along with many friends and acquaintances in the field.

Whatever the decision that the young musicians make, it is important to know that while these are monumental decisions now and will largely impact the short & mid-term outcomes and options available to them, in the long run there are many ways to vary the set path in line with evolving expectations, preferences and constraints. Only hard determinant I have come to observe is health. As long as musician has the wellness required to practice his/her craft rest is all up to them to figure out with the support of training they receive and the network they build along the way.

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@MusakParent agreed. I think thats why this forum is so valuable with view points shared by contributors such as yourself, @glassharmonica and countless others who are either in the field or have kids who walked the path ahead of our own… Thank you very much!

I saw the articles last night and had similar thoughts to @glassharmonica…but didn’t want to a party pooper. I think the articles are useful and good to post. But as a parent of a working performer, these articles seem to regurgitate the same narrow view of success…an orchestra job or an opera singer…that still seems to permeate the academic and “scholarly” world. While the reality is that most performers “gig” constantly…as opposed to working a steady “corporate-like” job at an opera company or with an orchestra. Even the older performers I know seem to live in a dynamic world of connections and opportunities that are ever-changing. I think it’s important for students to know bc 1) it takes pressure off the all or nothing attitude you can find in academia and 2) if you don’t like to audition and gig constantly, you may not be in the right field. The most pleasant surprise for my D was finding out you can be hired for various opportunities a year out. This summer, her schedule was full for the next year…but they are all different companies throughout the year. She also enjoys the variety. She works about 20 hrs a week (up or down depending on performing) and has started teaching. This is much more common than getting one opportunity for a year or two…or maybe longer. And she’s very happy…at least for now.

Thank you for sharing the article and starting this conversation. I am an outsider to the world of music, I have a DS20 who was seriously considering majoring in music then was partially “convinced” by me to at least double major. I had thought the issue had been “decided” till he mentioned to me offhandedly that Sheppard school of music is sending him emails to invite him for an in school visit/taking classes with music teachers. I showed the two articles to him and reiterated my hope of his not narrowing his field of study too soon too early.
I don’t know whether it is a good or right thing to do. But to me, to be successful in the music world, talent alone won’t cut it, you have to be cream de la cream and with lots of luck. The margin of errors are very slim, while you could be a very good professional and living a comfortable life by just be above average. And have music as a great hobby or if you like, a gig on the side. Am I wrong?
To me, living from gig to gig, whether it is one year or one summer, just sounds pretty stressful. It might be feasible or even exciting when you are in the twenties and single, but not that fun when you have to worry about kids and mortgage and retirement. Am I too behind the wheels of the time?

Can the more experienced folks here take a look at this post and give your opinions/suggestions? I also linked this discussion there.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/2107539-leaving-traditional-university-to-go-to-music-conservatory.html#latest

@makemesmart we have very similar concerns. My D has now decided to go the conservatory and full time music route and we support her decision 100% however it is not without worry for me and my wife.

Based on all my interactions with folks in the field as well as discussions with my daughter’s teachers I am convinced my D will be ok. There are many avenues to explore and opportunities to generate income. Our bigger concern is actually on the health and wellness aspect.

As a performing musician your whole source of income is reliant on your ability to play. An unforeseen illness, a slip on black ice, a simple fall off the bicycle can all lead to an extended period of no work or even worse. My main concern and perhaps I’m being pessimistic, is whether my D will be able to keep herself safe and healthy enough to enjoy making music well into her retirement years.

I know there is no way to predict what will happen tomorrow and that unknown is cause for much concern for me and my wife.

Here’s an alternative to worry:

Have faith in your musical kids and their talents to find meaningful work…in their 20s, 30s and beyond. They can define success in their own way as the years progress. Remember they get a bachelors degree so they can get work.

@makemesmart - with all due respect I think you’re taking the narrow view…absolute success for the tippy top or nothing. You may want to get your son out to interact more with working musicians and artists. My D did this in high school so it helped both of us understand the possibilities and realities. Maybe he’ll like it. Maybe he won’t.

And, musical parents will understand this: my D didn’t choose musical performance, it chose her. If you can talk your kid out of a performance degree, he probably should do music as a hobby. There was no way my D would stop pursuing music. Zero chance. It would be like telling a cheetah not to run. I have no control over it. But I have a lot of faith in her to find her way in the world. And most musical parents will understand that too. It takes faith.

Now that my D is 26 and self-supporting, I feel little responsibility anymore (but I do understand your worries…been there/done that…and lost the battle for an easier career route). I paid for a bachelors and a masters so…she can support herself…and is. It does work out bc it has to. I would just give up on the narrow view and open yourself up to many possibilities…even non-musical ones. College is only the first step in a long journey that will zig and zag.

If your kid doesn’t like that…maybe a degree in accounting?

This article, as well as the one SpiritManager shared, was great. Thanks for sharing!

There’s a lot in this thread that resonates with me. A few observations.

  1. Like @bridgenail’s D, my son didn’t choose music, it chose him. Music defines who he is. But if I’m being honest with myself, I was slow to recognize it. My wife and I were ready to support him going to music school, but I think he knew we weren’t entirely comfortable with it. He ended up going to an academic college despite getting into some top music schools, and I think the decision was in part that he knew it would make his parents happier. In hindsight, I wish I had been more encouraging of his going the music school route. But he always tells us he has no regrets and I think he means it. He found a way to make it work and I think he did enjoy being surrounded by a wide range of students in college. (It also helped that his college had some amazing other jazz musicians, and he ended up getting a conservatory experience as well.)
  2. With respect to the article, I agree with others that the vision of “success” being an orchestra position is way too narrow. And, of course, in the jazz world, basically irrelevant. A musician today is an entrepreneur, finding a wide array of sources of income.
  3. Based on my son’s experience (as well as his friends who are pursuing music and the experiences shared here by parents of music graduates), you can make a living at music. But you need to be flexible. And having a base of teaching income really helps. On the other hand, you don’t want to take on so many students that it overwhelms your ability to do everything else you want/need to do, including practice.
  4. It’s not an easy life, and there are certainly more lucrative paths, but it can be a very rewarding life. My son has met so many amazing people and had so many amazing experiences in just two years out of school. There is a world of people out there that supports music and musicians. And my son says that connecting with those people through his music makes it all worthwhile.

@makemesmart , @bridgenail (as usual) nailed it (no pun intended)–“It would be like telling a cheetah not to run.” No one has ever accused me of being practical, but I do believe that everyone has a gift. Some are more fortunate than others because their gifts become apparent early on and they can pursue them with everything they’ve got. To have people–family, especially–who fully support them in those pursuits is invaluable.
Yes, as @HereWeGoAgain2018 indicated, things can go wrong. But that is true of almost any pursuit.
The last thing I would want my son to feel when he’s older is that he never got to fully pursue what he loves the most and does well at, because I discouraged him from trying. Maybe it won’t work out, or maybe it will lead him down roads he never expected it would, or maybe he’ll be wildly successful. But as far as I’m concerned there are few things sadder than realizing when it’s too late that you never got to try to pursue what was truly meaningful to you.
Certainly you would want to make sure that your son understands all the possible pitfalls along the way, and ask him to think deeply about whether it’s really what he wants to do. But in the end, in my opinion, it’s his life and his decision to trust the universe with his dreams.
Whenever we run into difficulties, I always remind my son what I learned fairly late in life–almost nothing happens that can’t be remedied, if you relax and let things take their course. I guess I’m kind of a Taoist in that regard!
Just my own opinion, of course. You know your child.

Great input from parents who have walked this path. Thanks for all your help @bridgenail , @jazzpianodad & @AsMother. I know it will all be ok. Just need to chill and support our kids to be the best that they can be in their chosen fields.

The music world has changed a lot in recent decades and it truly isn’t all about getting a chair in an orchestra. The Internet has had a big effect, of course. Many musicians free lance or play in multiple ensembles, some teach, some do outreach work and some have day jobs. I know a trombonist who got a BM and then went to work at a tv station, a jazz player who went to medical school, and many people who mix different kinds of gigs: our local music teacher also plays in a regional orchestra and is part of a popular indie rock/cabaret band. He has kids now and seems to be making it work. Music students are known for their discipline and are welcomes in all kinds of fields, as well.

There are some good books online about making a career in music. I bought a couple and they were encouraging.

My kid used to go to her teacher and say, “over the weekend I really tried to quit music but I couldn’t.”

My husband and I are both conservatory trained (NEC BM '89 and '90 and he has his MM '92). Neither of us wound up being professional musicians for varying reasons. My husband still plays (oboe) in small gigs around town and I can no longer play due to inflammation in my hands (bassoon). (I had decided not to play before the health issues showed up) I have been able to use my knowledge and experience in my “day job” at a local symphony orchestra and now at a music festival in town where I run the box office and database.

So when our daughter (NEC '22) came along and grew in passion and ability on violin, we were both understanding and supportive of her pursuit. Even though we did not achieve that “professional” level, we understand the love and passion of music. And when she began to show real promise and desire to pursue a performance degree neither one of us had any reservations of letting her pursue it. You would think we would caution her but actually the opposite happened. I easily recognize that she is already a better musician than I ever was and when her teachers encouraged her to pursue the highest level of school, we were right there with her.

We have always told her that there are many many ways to make a living with a violin, even when she was very young. Even her college application essays reflected this attitude. When they asked what she saw herself doing in the future her actual answer was I have no idea beyond that I want to be playing the violin - solo, orchestral, chamber, whatever may come. She wrote about how she wants to use her time at school to find her niche, to find that path. We feel she is poised to get a top notch education with one of the most widely recognized teachers in the country and will be ready for what may come.

We worry, yes, but we’ve been to the puppet show and we’ve seen the strings. Life turns and twists and if you have the right love and passion, you find your way. I pray every day she doesn’t inherit my bad hands! But when you hear such a song bird, how can you ask it to stop singing?

And sometimes I just say - if the world all begins to fall apart and “music jobs” are no more, won’t we value those among us who can play so beautifully to lift the human spirit?

This is an art and art is beyond money. Anyway, that’s how I feel. And now I’m missing her even more!!! 22 days until I see (and hear!) her again!!

This is only marginally related, so apologies, but one path for musicians is contemporary classical (often called “new music”), meaning 20th and 21st century composers, and sometimes living composers who are “emerging.” There are grad programs specifically geared to this focus and musicians who are intentionally trained to play (graphic scores anyone?) I am wondering how many of you have kids who are considering this avenue to professional music?