<p>Yes, I just looked up the definition for pulchritudinous--characterized by or having great physical beauty or appeal. That's a word I've never encountered before, but I know it now! thanks.</p>
<p>Man, if only I could've looked it up. I'd be sitting on a 660 verbal. :-P</p>
<p><a href="2">quote</a> The GREs are meaningless, but they should still should be taken seriously, and prepared for, because adcoms do look at them (not necessarily as signifiers of intelligence per se). A corollary of this view is that one CAN prep for the exams.
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</p>
<p>I agree with this one most closely...but don't agree with having to take them too seriously. </p>
<p>I believe in PhD programs that an individuals initiative to make contact with prospective advisors in a professional manner will outweigh a mediocre GRE score in the admissions process.</p>
<p>
[quote]
5) In terms of anecdotal evidence, my own observations are that there is an inverse relationship between a person's GRE score and his/her tendency to say they mean nothing.
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<p>I'm personally not bitter about my GRE scores, I don't believe they accurately evaluate my abilities, but I personally scored better on my GRE's than my SAT and ACT's.</p>
<p>My record:</p>
<p>SAT: 1st try 1080
2nd try 1120 (broken down 530 V; 590 M...took Sylvan course to raise my score for that time)
ACT: Gosh..I think it was really bad...probably 21 (I didn't prepare for it at all)</p>
<p>GRE: 1st try 1080 (430 V; 650 Q; 5.0 A...didn't study for V, not even one problem)
2nd try 1190 (540 V; 650 Q; 5.0 A...studied for V, not Q...plus had a dilated eye from serious car accident month earlier)</p>
<p>I'm proof that you can indeed study for V at least...all I did to raise my score over 100 pts was by studying the 100 most used words on the GRE's (I think it was in the Idiot's Guide...).</p>
<p>However, I do not think that my Q score accurately reflects my abilities in mathematics. I scored A's in all three Calculus courses as an undergraduate and received a B+ in Diff Eq. </p>
<p>I thought seriously about retaking my GRE scores for the admissions process to my PhD program. However, I was assured by my mentor (a very well respected authority in my discipline) that my GRE scores were good enough to get into every program to which I applied and to not worry about it. I'm not talking abut MIT, CalTech, or any Ivys here (which aren't necessarily best for my subdiscipline), but I am talking abut programs ranked Top 20 in my field.</p>
<p>Summary:</p>
<p>I personally think that it all boils down to that no, I don't think GRE's should be weighed heavily in admissions processes just as I don't think SAT's/ACT's should be weighed heavily in undergraduate admissions. It's not because I'm bitter about my scores; I have just seen as many of those with high scores fail as those with lower scores that succeed.</p>
<p>Has nothing to do with whether they should or shouldn't be considered by adcoms - I'm simply saying they are. To ease some minds, with regard to PhD programs I think a combined 1300+ will have you in excellent shape. Most people don't do as well on both sections, so if both your scores are 600+ you're doing quite well, and a total of 1300 or more is very good. Sciences have a greater tendency to see the verbal score as facultative, so if you're applying to biology or chemistry with something like a 500 verbal but a quant that is solidly over 700, you should also be okay to at least get into a solid school. If you're applying to humanities programs, a total of 1300+ is fellowship potential, and 1400+ will have adcoms wondering if you cheated.</p>
<p>With regard to the person who improved their verbal by 100+, most people agree that the verbal is the area that allows for the greatest improvement through study. People who study a reasonable amount rarely budge the quant score. Which is why I mentioned earlier that the GRE is considered a CULTURE-SPECIFIC IQ test. There is a GRE to IQ converter here: <a href="http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/GREIQ.html%5B/url%5D">http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/GREIQ.html</a> - the results obviously do not apply to people whose first language is not English. IF you score high on the GRE, consider joining Intertel, which is a high-IQ society for top 1% scorers and which accepts the GRE as a result. It's a small organization but we have a fun newsletter, nice little events, less dorky than Mensa.</p>
<p>less dorky than Mensa is still pretty darn dorky...
just playin... ;) (well... mostly just playin...)</p>
<p>Who uses those SAT/GRE words in real life? I mean really. What else is the dictionary and thesarus for? Who remembers any of that stuff? I just purge stuff after the semester ends and hardly remember a thing. Heck, I can read a book and not know what it is about the next day. And if I wanted to know what it was about, I could read the brief summary on Amazon.com or on the back cover of the book itself. I can do a math problem one day, and 5 days later I need to look at an example to figure out how to do the same one again.</p>
<p>I find that many of the words I know that helped me on the GRE have been useful in reading academic texts.</p>
<p>And forgetting what you've learned after the semester is a pity. It only gets more useful if you go to grad school.</p>
<p>Even if the GRE is a culture-specific IQ test, that doesn't mean that it's meaningful or worthwhile. Or that it measures anything.</p>
<p>Puppydog, so...my quant is something like 550 based on the practice CAT I took yesterday, does that mean I should abandon hope on this section altogether because of test takers static nature on math ability? If so, then I won't be going to grad school for biology. I was under the impression the ACT was an IQ test as well during my high school days, and as a result I almost decided to not attend college (my scores were above the national average, but only by a few points). I'm really glad a friend of mine convinced me to go, because I ended up graduating with a 3.7 gpa from a large state school (MU), including A's in the majority of my science classes, including organic chem and quantitative analysis. I'm not saying MU is an ivy or anything, but I was always in the company of smart people.</p>
<p>I'm not convinced the quant section is a measure of my IQ, because I feel that I'm an intelligent fellow, at least above average. I appreciate your post, because I believe a lot of what you say is true, but when you make statements like "People who study a reasonable amount rarely budge the quant score", it really bums the hell out of me and takes away my motivation to even try. I'm going to try to prove you wrong and improve my quant by 100 points or so, which I believe is possible. I know there is room for improvement, which gives me something to shoot for.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm not giving up yet. I'll let you guys know the final result when I test in April.</p>
<p>I've always been told that the quant section is the most coachable of the three GRE sections. I think you can raise it no sweat. Don't worry too much. My first quant practice score was a 490. After I remembered all my formulas, I was hitting 700s on the practice CATs. I think what hurt me the most was having to take the test in a stressful environment after a 2 hour flight and a night in a hotel. When I retake it, I'm confident I can get it back up to practice levels.</p>
<p>"And forgetting what you've learned after the semester is a pity. It only gets more useful if you go to grad school."</p>
<p>so? If I can't remember a lot of things short or long term, oh well.</p>
<p>i dont know about the absolute relevance of GREs. one of my friends got into stanford with a little above a 1000 combined.</p>
<p>i do think that they are important, and there are those schools like duke that dont even forward your application to the department if you dont make a certain score on the gre, but there is always some place that will do that.</p>
<p>for me, my gres arent stellar, nor are they abismal. however, i do have a lot going for me on my application and in my cv and writing sample and i hope that the schools focus on that.</p>
<p>frankly, i already have 3 publications, 2 years of teaching and research experience, 3 conferences, won third prize in an international competition, editor in chief of a journal, organized conferences, helped edit a book, and speak 3 languages. if there is some department that doesnt accept me based on the fact that i didnt make perfect gre scores then screw them. i have faith that i can make it without them.</p>
<p>^^^that's the attitude.</p>
<p>The GRE doesn't really prove anything other than one's test taking skills.</p>
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[quote]
so? If I can't remember a lot of things short or long term, oh well.
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<p>It just seems like you took pride in forgetting stuff. I'm sad that so much knowledge has slipped from my fingers. Don't take pride in losing it, I guess is what I want to say.</p>
<p>I just received my GRE scores:
590 Verbal, 570 Quantitative, and 4.5 for Analytical.</p>
<p>I am applying for Ph.D. Social Sciences (Political Science and Public Policy Analysis & Administration)</p>
<p>Did I mess up my chances with these average scores?</p>
<p>(I have 3.8 Undergrad GPA and a 4.0 for my MA)</p>
<p>I would imagine it depends where you're applying. The 590/570 is above the GRE average, which was 597 quant and 469 verbal for 2001-2004. That being said, for PhD the requirement may be higher, depending on the program. I would think that the 4.5 may be borderline also, given that you're going into a field with a reasonably significant written/communicative component. But your GPAs are strong. If they require a writing sample, I would be extra-careful to send in a very strong one.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. I checked the mean scores (Guide to the Use of Scores) and the Mean for the Analytical is 4.2, so again , I am just barely above the average. </p>
<p>I do have strong letters of recomendations and I feel pretty good about the SOP. i am applying to UM-St. Louis and SLU.</p>
<p>Their program doesn't post average GREs for accepted students, which is a drag: many programs do. Still, I would think your chances would be good. Did they ask for a writing sample beyond the SOP?</p>
<p>Puppydog,</p>
<p>No, just a clear statement about my means for the grad work, .... what my future goals are...etc.</p>
<p>SLU wanted a total of 1500, 500 in each area (old formula) so I should meet the minimum, but UM-SL doesn't state anything other that acceptable scores needed.</p>
<p>O2BPHD,</p>
<p>Which programs are you applying to for poli sci? I can give you some ranges.</p>