Grinnell v Pitzer and the Claremont Consortium (v Oberlin?)

College Search & Selection
1

Hi. So after an awful experience at my Oberlin overnight, I’m mostly stuck between these fairly different (but awesome!) schools. I’m a prospective English/Media Studies major with an interest in journalism, creative writing, and film/television. I grew up in the heart of Miami so obviously neither is close to home geographically, though Pitzer feels more like home culturally (city life, warm weather, large Latinx population, etc).

Pitzer has been near the top of my list since the fall, and I considered applying ED, but something held me back. I guess it’s the “prestige” factor, which shouldn’t matter greatly. But there is a very very large disparity in their ratings that I genuinely don’t understand. I also worry that as a young school, it’s still “figuring itself out”, and lacks an established alumni base. It also doesn’t have the traditions and pomp and circumstance that some Northeastern LACs have - obviously not a dealbreaker, but when I started this process and pictured my ideal college experience I was more interested in being one in a long line of interesting and intellectual students than an educational pioneer. I’ve also heard that some of the kids at the other Claremont schools look down on Pitzer students because it’s historically been an easier school. I do like that it has a specific Media Studies department with classes in film and journalism.

Grinnell has more of the vibe that I wanted, and I loved my overnight there. My main worries there are the winters (I’ve never experienced one and I just had a friend transfer from Colgate to U of Miami because her seasonal depression was so intense she couldn’t cope) and the relative foreignness of living in the middle of nowhere. I know there’s a lot to do on campus, I just worry about a rough transition. I was also somewhat troubled by the amount of kids from Minnesota/Iowa/Illinois I met during my visit - they were all nice, but I really want a geographically diverse student body. The head of the Careers, Life, and Service (?) department also said that a large part of the alumni base was centered in Des Moines, Chicago, and the Twin Cities, which worries me because I really don’t want to live in the Midwest after graduation.

I also wonder if I’ve discounted Oberlin too easily - on paper, it has an incredibly strong writing curriculum, an amazing alumni base, and lots of cute traditions. But during my visit, some of the kids were just… too weird for me. This feeling really peaked when my overnight host described her passion for death and how much she’d wanted to kill the kids in her high school (?!). I don’t mean to sound judgemental, but parts of the college were just too much for me. Should I ignore that feeling for the academics?

Is a Grinnell education more valuable than one from Pitzer? Why is Pitzer so poorly rated (not just on US News but across the board)? Is Grinnell to some extent a regional Midwestern college? Are either of these schools better for journalism/writing (this, to me, is the most important factor)? Am I discounting Oberlin too easily?

Thank you.

2

I think you’re discounting Oberlin too hastily, yeah. I think your other concerns are at least somewhat valid, and Oberlin might hit the “sweet spot”: more cosmopolitan/diverse than Grinnell, more established than Pitzer, great writing program. @starkly

3

Pitzer has become a very difficult admit lately – I think the other colleges see Pitzer as very casual, but not lesser. You have to remember that three of the other 5Cs are very competitive schools, too. But honestly, I think they are pretty live & let live with each other. And you get the benefit of the consortium to take classes at the other campuses (which students really do). Like my Mudder, who is a physics major, but is also passionate about TS Eliot is taking a CMC class on Eliot this semester that she adores. The consortium is a huge bonus.

I say listen to your gut on Oberlin – it is not for everyone – my kid who visited had a terrible day visit. It is a great school for some kids, but if you were turned off by 24 hours on campus, don’t feel obligated. And I just don’t see Grinnell as having a lot more prestige than Pitzer.

4

You’ve got three excellent choices and can’t go wrong with any of them. Pitzer’s admit rate in the past couple of years has been going down and last year was much lower than Grinnell’s or Oberlin’s (13% vs. 28% vs. 33%). As @intparent points out, you’ve got the entire consortium at your disposal.

Other than the bigger schools with national and international reputations, prestige is regional. I’m from NY and hadn’t heard much about the Claremonts until I moved to California. Most people out here have never heard of Swarthmore.

Have you visited Pitzer? Are finances a factor? Oberlin and Grinnell are great schools, but if you feel like Pitzer’s a better fit, you’re not going to go wrong either way.

5

You can only go to one school so you have to find ways to rule them out. If you didn’t love Oberlin, I say take it off the list.

I personally feel like Grinnell is a little better known than Pitzer, which gets overshadowed by Pomona and Harvey Mudd among the science-y types. I know kids who’ve gone to both schools and were very happy. While I think college is a time for growth and exploration and, for that reason, I think Grinnell could offer you the biggest “growth” experience, I would choose Pitzer because of the consortium. The Pitzer girl I knew took classes throughout the consortium and was really happy with her choice.

6

It baffles me that schools do not do a better job of screening hosts and tour guides. Your Oberlin host seems like a bad ambassador for the school.
That being said, based on fit, it seems that Pitzer is your best option. It is a highly regarded school, don’t think Oberlin or Grinnell carry more ‘prestige’

7

Yep. My son had one overnight host who just had no business being a host. Kids, if you’re not willing to commit to being reasonably friendly and spending a little time showing your prospies the attractive aspects of your school, don’t sign up to be a host!

Regarding Pitzer vs Grinnell, we’ve had this prestige conversation many times on these forums. Bottom line: 95%+ of the general public is not going to have heard of either Pitzer or Grinnell. The people that matter, grad schools, and, hopefully, potential employers will know them both (though that latter bit may depend a bit upon the part of the country in which you’re looking for work). I recommend setting your prestige concerns aside and making your decision based on other factors. And if I had a quarter for every time I’ve typed some variant of that last sentence on these forums…

8

Most schools are going to have a slightly larger draw from their own geographic region, even those that are nationally recognized. I am the parent of a Grinnell student, and the Career, Life and Service Center sends students and supports opportunities across the U.S. – and around the world! This is an old link, but it can give you an idea of geographic diversity. Interestingly, some of these midwestern colleges (such as Grinnell and Carleton) appear to me to be more balanced than some on the coast, perhaps reflecting their position more in the middle of the country.
http://chronicle.com/interactives/freshmen_insts#id=130794

Agree with posters who say not to factor prestige into any decision. Prestige is really in the eye of the beholder anyway, isn’t it?

9

Maybe I misspoke when I said it was prestige. I know that rankings shouldn’t matter, but they do measure SOME things, and I’m concerned at the large disparity there. If they are peer schools, why is Grinnell #17-19 and Pitzer #36? Smaller differences (like Grinnell and Oberlin) obviously don’t matter, but that’s a large gulf.

10

(Grinnell’s USNWR rankings range is 19-21; Pitzer is alone at 36. Grinnell’s overall score is 85; Pitzer’s is 77.)

My question regarding Pitzer concerns their direct suitability for your academic interests. Though I would recommend them highly for, for example, anthropology, psychology and sociology, I do not associate the school with your fields of study. In terms of environment, Pitzer is brownish, often dry and occasionally quite hot. However, I think with your Miami background, you would do fine in their surroundings.

11

Not only is #17-19 to #36 not a large gulf, but such a small difference is for all intents and purposes insignificant in determining any real life outcome.

12

I guess what we’re arguing is it’s really not. They’re both highly selective schools with bright kids who got good grades and good test scores. They both have high graduation rates and freshmen retention rates. Test scores are a smidge higher at Grinnell, but the difference is probably immaterial. Grinnell also has a positively massive endowment, while Pitzer’s is pretty modest, so that’s probably another factor in the rankings, but that’s at least partially compensated (some might argue more than compensated) by Pitzer kids having access to the rest of the Claremont Consortium.

If you were particularly interesting in science, I’d probably be pushing Grinnell a little harder, because I think they’re exceptionally strong in those areas, but I would think they’d be more equal for your areas of interest (though I really can’t say for sure, you should check for yourself). I don’t think you can go wrong with either choice.

13

From Grinnell’s website:
Top 10 home states:
Illinois
California
Iowa
Minnesota
New York
Wisconsin
Massachusetts
Missouri
Maryland
Colorado

Prestige aside, I’m pretty sure Grinnell’s student stats beat out Pitzer. It is definitely not a regional college and is well respected in academic circles.

The Claremont Consortium is a great asset and offers greater opportunities to find courses and your “tribe.” In reputation I would say Pitzer is outshone by Pomona but it should not be a big deal in your lifelong aspirations. The location sure beats Iowa but those Grinnellians all love their school. I’m not sure that Iowa has the intense gray of winter that some places get.

You will need to do your own analysis on this, but a quick web perusal leads me to believe Grinnell is head and shoulders above Pitzer for creative writing, but the California locale is probably better for TV/film, keeping in mind, as unimaginable as it may seem, you may switch majors.

14

Grinnell kids are “smart”: “The 50 Smartest Colleges in America,” Business Insider.

15

If you are worried about Grinnell winters keep in mind you will have a 6 week break in December and January and a 2 week Spring break in March (it’s still winter). Grinnell is a compact campus, I think my son has worn his winter coat once this year and his winter boots one other time.

16

I went from southern CA to the Northeast for college, and the seasonal affective disorder thing can be HUGE. I can’t help but think that Grinnell would be more intellectual than Pitzer, but the consortium is a big plus. Have you visited Pitzer? Anything to compare with your great Grinnell visit? BTW Pomona looks down on the other 4 colleges but don’t let snobbishness rule your decision. And I would go with your gut and eliminate Oberlin.

17

My daughter went to Pomona, don’t feel that the rest of the consortium looks down upon Pitzer. The differences in the five colleges may be part of “party bravado” but in every day reality, they respect each other for their particular strengths.
Daughter took a few classes at the other colleges based on the professors. If she felt there was an exceptional professor for a particular class, she opted to take that course. For her thesis, due to the narrow range of interest, she had a co-thesis advisor, one from Pomona and one from Pitzer. The Pitzer professor was a particularly good fit for her thesis topic and she was very happy for his expertise.
At the end of the day, students select schools for fit and education. Don’t be hung up on ratings. Any of your listed schools will provide quality education, go to the one you will feel happiest during the four years of your undergrad experience.

18

You’e gotten some good advice here. I especially agree with the comments from @intparent and @rayrick. Don’t obsess on rankings and prestige. I know that acceptance rates are not definitive but Pitzer’s acceptance rate this year was 12.9% so as @intparent said, it’s become a difficult place to get admitted to. As a parent of a Pomona student, I also agree that Pitzer kids are accepted as academic equals.One of the most popular and highly sought after professors at Pomona is Char Miller who is a Pitzer grad. Each school has a stereotype but it relates more to personality/lifestyle than to intelligence or ability. Oberlin and Grinnell are excellent schools and I have nothing negative to say about them. You should pick based on where you believe you’ll fit (and of course finances unless that’s not an issue).

19

From day 1 on campus, Grinnell will challenge you to improve your writing. And you will never stop improving. It is what they do best.

I think their admit rate was only about 18% this year, so you must be a great student to have been admitted!

20

I hope that you reported your experience to Oberlin admissions. That host sounds profoundly troubled and should probably gets some counseling. Additionally s(he) should no longer host prospective students. Aside from giving a very bad impression of the school, I would have been a bit fearful for my personal safety, had I been you.

FWIW, the students that I know who have gone to Oberlin from my daughter’s school have been basically normal, mainstream, smart kids, liberal-leaning, but nothing extreme.

As for your choice, I don’t know any of them personally. But you’ve got three great options, congrats!