<p>Hey guys, Im international student, and I was admitted at Grinnell, with a good scholarship, however I'm wait listed at Williams, and before visiting campus at grinnell that was my first choice, I loved everything at Grinnell, the peole were extremely kind, I loved the classes, but it is still hard for me to accept the idea of living in the middle of Iowa, more when I can have the change of going to MA. Do you think that Williams is so much better than Grinnell like to say no to a good scholarship? I don't know how is the vibe in Williams, do you think Williams is a good enviroment for an international??</p>
<p>As far Williams, it’s a very good school. It is in a very, very remote area, so I don’t think that you should feel that because it is in MA that it’s in a big hub. It’s definitely not. You will be a few hours from Boston and Albany Ny is about an hour or so away. There is nothing as far as a big city that is close by. In fact at Grinnell you would be closer in terms of time getting to Iowa City or Des Moines(about an hour each). I used to live quite close to Williams. It’s in the middle of nowhere. In fact the town is very, very small, quite like Grinnell. They both are very cold in the winter and they are both very remote. Both are beautiful schools. I have seen people who favor Williams argue that Grinnell is in the middle of nowhere, but quite frankly so is Williams. I think the big thing in your situation is how much do you need the scholarship? As far as academics, both are amazing and you are fortunate to be in this situation. I can’t comment on Williams, but I do know that Grinnell has a very large international student body about 11/12%. The environment really fosters that. If you got significant money to go to Grinnell and that is a real help to you than I would go to Grinnell, especially since you loved everything about it. My S was very interested in Williams, but we couldn’t pass up the opportunity to get great merit aid from a school like Grinnell. He will be attending Grinnell this coming fall. Do you know what the likely hood of being admitted into Williams is now that you are on the wait list?</p>
<p>Neither school is better than the other, but one might be better for you. If you have an interest in intellectual academics or grad school, this may be of interest:</p>
<p>[PHD</a> PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]PHD”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)</p>
<p>The page suggests the relative strengths of each school, to the point that both don’t appear on any list together.</p>
<p>Here’s something I just found and think it may be of some help to. </p>
<p><a href=“http://web.grinnell.edu/institutionalresearch/webdocs/PhDProd_F06.pdf[/url]”>http://web.grinnell.edu/institutionalresearch/webdocs/PhDProd_F06.pdf</a></p>
<p>I’m in a similar situation… I’m waitlisted at Williams (my first choice) and accepted at Carleton (similar to Grinnell in many respects). I chose to stay on the Williams waitlist, but every day my desire to actually attend Williams wanes further. I don’t really have any advice for you… just commiseration :).</p>
<p>esdienti, I had a hard time with the idea of Iowa too since I’d been strictly bi-coastal all my life. I pictured “American Gothic” (the Grant Woods painting) everywhere. Fortunately, my S and H aren’t nearly so small-minded. And now I’m a convert-rolling countryside like Tuscany in the fall, a small town straight out of a 1950’s movie, and people who are so nice that I feel like I’m in some kind of time warp whenever I’m there. </p>
<p>As d’s mom says, both schools are equally isolated. I’m sure folks on the Williams forum can tell you more about the culture, esp. for internationals. And staying on the waiting list at Williams is perfectly reasonable if you are unsure. You can worry about choosing between them if and when you have to make that decision. You might want to contact Williams, however, to find out how many people are on the waiting list this year, and in past years, and how many got off the waiting list historically, so you can calibrate your expectations. This year, the waiting lists at many schools is huge because of the economic uncertainly, so even more people than usual are likely to be disappointed.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for the advices, now that I now about the PHD I would like to know which is school would be better if I want to attend Law school in the future?</p>
<p>To those on the waitlist: I have no idea how this compares to other years, but as far as my D could tell, every single person at the Williams’ accepted students overnight had been accepted to another top college. People were choosing between, say, Stanford and Williams, or Princeton, Harvard & Williams. So statistically, there will definitely be people who decline Williams. (Not saying Princeton or Harvard are better–just saying you can’t accept all of them; and some people will choose Williams, some Stanford, etc.). This year, I’m sure economics will play a larger role than usual–with the exception of a small lucky percentage, most people will base their decision with the best economic deal in mind. So I guess what I’m saying is hang in there; people will definitely be chosen from the waitlist. The trick is no one knows how many–I heard the waitlists were huge this year for just this reason (colleges couldn’t predict what would happen). </p>
<p>Best of luck. By the way, if you want Williams, you can certainly call up the admissions office and let them know you’re interested, and why. Of course, be polite. But it never hurts to let them know how interested you are.</p>
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<p>Not “definitely.” Colleges accept many more students than they need to fill a class; they make an assumption about how many of the accepted students will actually enroll - it’s called “yield”. Students who choose another school over Williams are not opening up a space for a waitlisted student. Only if Williams has grossly underestimated their yield will the fact that some admitted students go elsewhere have any bearing on whether or not students will be accepted off the wait list.</p>
<p>While both Grinnell and Williams are “in the middle of nowhere,” the feeling of each location is very different! Williams is set right in the mountains, and the beauty and availability of outdoor activity and scenic getaway is available right at the doorstep. Williamstown is a cultural and vacation destination, while Grinnell is a college in a rural location.</p>
<p>In terms of how you would feel as an international, I think you will be accepted and integrated well into either community. Grinnell makes up for the lack of diversion in the surrounding area by bringing a ton of stuff onto campus. Students seem very busy and the isolation makes for a very close-knit community.</p>
<p>There is no such place as “nowhere.” Every place is somewhere. Funny how people seem to define a rural setting as “the middle of nowhere” instead of accepting that some college communities simply have fewer buildings and people. That doesn’t make the place equivalent to “nowhere.”</p>
<p>Good point Plainsman. Please take no offense as I don’t think we meant that it was literally in the middle of “nowhere”. It was used for illustration purposes in that there are few people and the towns are very small i/e Williams 8300 and Grinnell 9100. </p>
<p>Having been to both schools, I can personally say that they are both very charming and quite remote. I love that about them as I feel it makes for a closer knit environment which is important in the overall college experience IMO.</p>
<p>I ask because in my town Williams and Grinnell attract very different students and offer quite different atmospheres although both are considered excellent in terms of their academics. Our local stereotype classifies Grinnell with Wesleyan or Carleton and Williams with Princeton or Hamilton. Someone from our town who applied to one of those schools would be unlikely to apply to the other.</p>
<p>enfall make a good point. My son applied only to schools where words like quirky or unconventional were used in the guide books to describe the students. Words like that were not used to describe Williams students in any of the guides we read. I remember the term “gentleman jock” from one guidebook re: Williams students. Of course there are some sports enthusiasts at Grinnell and some quirky people at Williams. My son just wanted the preponderance of students to be more quirky than jocky. And he wanted no frats on campus. I don’t know if Williams has frats and sororities, but Grinnell certainly does not.</p>