<p>Grade deflation at Groton is real. To earn Summa honors at Groton requires a 92% average and typically only 2 or 3 students earn this a year. That’s an 3.68 on a 4.0 scale. </p>
<p>I’d like to confirm what Prepschool said - though many did get into Ivy’s or top schools, MANY students experienced unexpected denials. Though the school is very good at working the wait list, so I’d wait until the dust settles before making a judgement on the matriculation list.</p>
<p>If these grade deflation numbers are real, many/most college ad coms probably do not recognize this (they either don’t have the time or don’t care because they have so many apps). Thus prepschool’s child’s hometown friend’s better results. This probably also affects this school’s students making it through the first round of merit scholarship cuts.
Mema-there will be movement off the waitlists but the movement at this type of school will be for student’s whose parents have the connections to make it happen. The movement will not be merit related. One or two will probably be Harvard Z-listers.
Where are colleges going to get their development admits? Not from prep school’s home town school.</p>
<p>I agree with classicalmamma- grading should be a bell curve otherwise it is meaningless. If 50 % are honors then the honors are deflated. Everyone is assuming that admissions are based on grades alone- they are not. The sum of the admission candidate is their grades, their SAT scores, their AP scores and SAT subject test results.
Reality folks- getting into Ivies is 0.01% in the general population, (Forbes) whereas Ivies in preps- 20+%. However, prep school is NOT an open ticket to an Ivy school- it is “just” a great education. Admissions to Harvard have tightened year after year, and will change with EA next year.
But not everyone judges BS success on Ivy admission, a well prepared student with a great education is reward enough. Just like chasing HADES is “drinking the Kool-Aid” as Exie puts it, so is chasing an Ivy. There are so many other great schools out there- I am amazed that Ivy admission is still being held up as a pass or fail for your school. Admission to Duke or Georgetown or Johns Hopkins = “winning” in my book</p>
<p>[Top</a> 25 : Matriculation Stats](<a href=“http://matriculationstats.org/top-25]Top”>http://matriculationstats.org/top-25)</p>
<p>These stats are more inclusive ( see methodology) at least IMHO</p>
<p>I have no relation with Groton, but have heard good things about the education there. In any event, I have no axe to grind here. Some thoughts:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>All of you should read the Wall Street Journal about Groton college admission published on April 25, 2003. This is the most insightful article I have ever read about college admission from a private school, and I have read a lot of articles on college admissions.</p></li>
<li><p>Good for Groton for not having grade inflation. The only way grading makes sense is as a relative comparison. In the long run Groton students will be far better off for this lesson.</p></li>
<li><p>Do you think that the admissions officers at Harvard or another elite school are so stupid that you think they can’t see through grade inflation or deflation at a given school, especially for a school that sends them many applicants each year? I have a low opinion of college admissions officers, but not this low.</p></li>
<li><p>In some respects, Groton students are competing against other Groton students in admissions to most colleges. This is why the relative comparison of grading is key. If Groton gave out (say) half A’s, you would have grade compression. Then you are penalizing the top students in the class–they could not be distinguished by grades. I guess if your kid is not a top but a good student, this might help them. But what message would this send? What type of higher education would our society be providing?</p></li>
<li><p>Does going to Groton help or hurt your admission at a “top” college? I think it depends. If you are #1 in your class at Groton (especially there with good students and no grade inflation), I assume (hope) that such a student would get into his/her top choice. I would be interested to hear if this is in fact the case. If you are #1 at an typical public high school, you may not get into your top choice. Frankly, being #1 at some schools means almost nothing. On the other hand, if you are in the top 20% of Groton that is a heck of an accomplishment, but you might not get into Harvard because of other strong and hooked applicants from Groton. Such a student might be #1 from his/her high school and might have a better college placement as a result. I don’t think this makes sense, but it is college admissions and their search for “diversity.”</p></li>
<li><p>Finally, beware of summary statistics on college admissions from various private schools. They may or may not apply to your kid. Please read the WSJ article I note above. That year Stanford accepted one student from Groton: Bob Bass’s daughter. She didn’t have a high SAT (amazingly, the WSJ got a spreadsheet with all students SATs) but she had the correct father. At the time he was chairman of the board at Stanford and a very major donor. Unless your kid has a similar parent, the admission to Stanford from Groton that year doesn’t tell you anything. In fact, it could work against your kid if Stanford decides to accept one kid from Groton and Bob Bass’s kid just happens to be applying.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Just learned that 26 of about 300 (guesstimate) Seniors of our local PS will be going to the ivies next Fall which is about 20 more than normally. I guess one could interpret it in different ways. Regardless, I’m confident that my guys would not trade their boarding school journey for all the tea in China. Groton is a great school.</p>
<p>If the matriculation mix is changing at BS, it may be because the college application process is changing. The BS are doing what they have always done - offered a high level college prep. However, top colleges are getting many more applications, and out of the thousands of applicants, they are looking for kids that stand out. Maybe BS kids are not standing out as much.</p>
<p>PS are offering more and more AP, so the BS aren’t as differenciated that way. Motivated kids from PS can pursue opportunites that BS students can’t since they are not stuck on a campus or need to spend as many hour studying. Example - my D is a musician. Had she attended the PS, she could have auditioned for the state orchestra or city youth orchestra. Attending BS leaves little time for extra’s outside of what the school has to offer, which is of very high quality, but not always outstanding. </p>
<p>However I must add that my D has loved Groton, is happy with her college choice, and does not feel like she gave up anything.</p>
<p>Thank you JimC, Ops and Mema for posting these replies, I am happy to see some common sense among the “Ivy admission” hysteria! I totally agree with your assessments- not least of which being
“3. Do you think that the admissions officers at Harvard or another elite school are so stupid that you think they can’t see through grade inflation or deflation at a given school, especially for a school that sends them many applicants each year? I have a low opinion of college admissions officers, but not this low”
and
“In some respects, Groton students are competing against other Groton students in admissions to most colleges. This is why the relative comparison of grading is key.”</p>
<p>I would love to post this all over the CC forum!!!
For all those who feel their kids are better off in Public Schools- by all means make this choice for your kids. But don’t start the doom and gloom predictions for all of those who have chosen to send our kids to this fine school. Not all of us see an Ivy as the carrot at the end. Inconceivable, but true: some of us just want our children challenged, engaged and well educated!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well said, MDMom</p>
<p>I want to correct a couple of statistics I recited from memory in my last post. The actual number of students who graduated from Groton last year was 83 and the number of magnas was 14.</p>
<p>I also think that many of you are missing my point. Of course there should be more substantive reasons to attend BS than just getting into college, as the trend away from acceptances of BS students by top colleges generally proves. However, looking at the indisputable stats from Groton and SPS, one at Groton would have to be concerned. They used to be almost identical in college placement. Now, with rampant grade inflation at SPS (how else can you explain 50%+ summas and magnas?), SPS is doing at least 50% better than Groton in one quantifiable metric-the Ivy plus Stanford and MIT. If that continues as a trend, this is a huge issue. On the Ivy metric, of course there are many great schools. But there aren’t that many that have both the great academics and the generally extremely generous financial aid awards-sepecially for the middle and upper middle class who don’t qualify for government programs. It took Duke 80 years to get there and Stanford over 100. That, and not just prestige, is why these schools are so important to so many parents.</p>
<p>Old1 - You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing SPS to Groton re: cum laude. The figures you are quoting, which I gather you obtained from the SPS Annual Report, on cum laude status is a system internal to SPS and not connected with the organization known as “The Cum Laude Society”. It is somewhat equivalent to a highest honors, high honors, honors ranking found at public schools. Believe me, there is no grade inflation at SPS. Furthermore, the designations you are tallying are given at graduation and not prior and, therefore, have no bearing on college results. As far as The Cum Laude Society goes, it appears 18 were elected as members from the 2010 graduating class.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, I think we can agree SPS and Groton and others are fine schools that can send their students to fine colleges. But I echo MDMom’s sentiment above.</p>
<p>Creative 1- I am not comparing apples to oranges and I never mentioned the cum laude society of which I was a member. I am talking about the fact that each school sets a grade point average to graduate with varying degrees of honors with the diploma. Top honors is summa cum laude. At Groton, that takes a cumulative average of 91.5 over grades 10-12. I don’t know what that requirement is at SPS, but the fact that only 3% of Groton’s graduating class achieved that while 19 SPS students or about 15% of its class were summas, assuming equivalent student bodies, is a strong indication of grade inflation at SPS.</p>
<p>Great point Old1! Looking at their web sites these BS school’s financial aid policies are very generous resulting in about 35% of the student body receiving grants. For these students college financial aid policies will matter a great deal. It would be interesting to know where the BS students receiving financial end up enrolling for college.</p>
<p>I believe this was the statement that got this thread and the grade deflation thread rolling:</p>
<p>“They had . . . the best year in over 16 years for college matriculations based on the number of students getting into their first choice.”</p>
<p>Several posters with knowledge of the facts and a different interpretation of them have responded, which I appreciate.</p>
<p>Funny how everyone assumes that the students’ “first choice” would only include Ivies. Perhaps (hopefully) that Harvard or Bust mentality is waning?</p>
<p>Exactly- the operative words were “students’ first choice schools” and everyone launched into an IVY band wagon discussion- the reality is, maybe, just maybe, kids were aiming for Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Duke, Williams, Vassar and other such “uninteresting” schools to the Ivy obsessed! Perish the thought!</p>
<p>I don’t think Prepschool12–a seasoned Groton parent–or any of the parents who shared warning stories are necessarily Ivy League obsessers. P12’s child didn’t get into her first choice school and her boyfriend–with less impressive stats and coming from a far less impressive school–did get into that school. I’m not sure that there’s anything Groton can or should do about it (personally I think the system is the problem, not the school)–but it’s all useful information. And jeez, if that was my kid, I wouldn’t be feeling too happy right now either…</p>
<p>Yes, the judgment of what good matriculation means is entirely subjective–but so is the statement in the OP that Groton had the “best year in over 16 years for college matriculations.” No one’s the bad guy here.</p>
<p>The comment came directly from the school- it wasn’t subjective- it was based on what it said it was- PERCENTAGE OF KIDS WHO GOT INTO THEIR FIRST CHOICE SCHOOLS- I am sure it is a hard statistic. It would be foolhardy for the school to put out unsubstantiated statements.The Ivy diatribe came after- and caught me entirely by surprise- but classicalmama is right- no one is the bad guy.</p>