<p>These comments about what is handed to you at elite prep schools are tiring. Realize that almost everyone at such schools busted their butts to get in. These are people who take the ball and run with it from all backgrounds. Yes, we have excellent counselors and need them as there are so many talented people with unique stories to tell, but trust me, they're not doing the leg work.</p>
<p>I invite anyone who believes we sit on our butts waiting for the HYP acceptance letters the counselors will secure to come for a visit and see what a few days at an elite prep school is like. You will very likely hightail it back to the comforts of home and days that are not 16 hours at the least.</p>
<p>Our GC was an adcom for Carlton (LAC) & then UCDavis, but I don't believe he has any kids yet. He's really nice & handles ALL the college guidance stuff & we have about 240 kids/grade or so. There is a grade level counselor that works with each grade & follows them for all 4 years of HS as well. There is also a registrar who handles the transcripts, but the GC plays a pretty big role.
He's very used to dealing with competitive/selective colleges & is pretty familiar with the East Coast & of course the CA & NW schools, but isn't as familiar with schools in the midwest or central areas. The high school produces a lot of NMF & NMSFs, so he is also very familiar with merit aid as well. Still, he's only one person, so he's stretched pretty thin in helping everyone (tho he doesn't have to deal with disciplinary issues at all). It will be a long time before we find out if having a child go through the process personally changes anything for him, but the kids relate to him well because he's young & seems to understand them better than the GC he is replacing who was the GC for 30+ years. The retired GC hires himself out privately, as do other retired GCs I know, particularly for high achieving students at schools where they don't feel they're getting enough guidance (like publics).</p>
<p>I attended a good public school in Colorado and am generally pro-public education in a big way. Right now, though, my job is to help kids from top prep schools (Milton, St. Paul's, St. George's, St. Mark's, etc. etc. etc., if you're in that community) get in to college. I also work with a number of public school kids. Here's what I can say firsthand:</p>
<p><em>Excellent public schools may have college guidance counselors as good as those anywhere else in the country. (My GC at Fairview High in Boulder, CO was as good as they come.)
*Student bodies at excellent public schools tend to be very empowered about the college search process. Often, students advise each other and share research, which can be as powerful a resource in some ways as having a good GC.
*Good counsel is a *must</em> for anyone with serious college ambitions. Successful applicants frequently benefit a lot from other people's past experience. This doesn't necessarily mean formal GCing; it can be good advice from another experienced person, like an alum of your target school
whom you know pretty well, or it can even take the form of surfing boards like this one.</p>
<p>Many students just aren't self-aware enough to really identify the things that make them unique among their peers. (Who is, really?) More than anything else, an experienced guidance counselor can help the student discover his or her most valuable and most unique qualities, and help the student draw them out. This is where the application process itself can actually make a difference. </p>
<p>To answer the question more directly: In my opinion, what makes a difference is having seen a number of students whom you care about deeply go through a process you care about deeply. Of course this could be your own kid(s). Or you could just be a very invested GC/teacher. Excellent GCs with no actual parent experience have typically hoped and dreamed for some of their prior students.</p>
<p>I go to a very good public school and we have special conselors that does nothing but talk to you about colleges and handle all the logistics around it.They are very helpful and avaiable by appointment.</p>
<p>I am on Guidance Counselor #3 in 4 years. When I visited Harvard, my mom and I talked to one of the admissions officers; she was extremely concerned that my counselor's total lack of knowledge about me (and his required letter) would hurt my chances of getting into an Ivy League school. The admissions officer actually told us that counselor letters are not valued greatly. Many conselors do not know their students personally and are simply the go-to for the transcript signature. While having a knowledgeable counselor help you along with the admissions process is a plus, having a horrible counselor will not completely ruin your chance at an Ivy League school. I have found another section of my school, called the 'CIC,' sort of a research/volunteer area, to be much more helpful. If you want to go to an Ivy League school, you should have enough independence and motivation to build a strong application on your own.</p>
<p>mine is new, young, no kids, and truely does not sound like he knows what he is doing. school is private and thinks that one counselor per 100 kids is enough...prefers to spend $ on more buildings and sports.</p>
<p>my mom did more of the work and would make a much better advisor to kids.
actually some of my friends asked her for her opinion cause the cc discouraged applying to reach schools. come to find out, it makes a school "look" bad if there are a lot of denials on record.</p>
<p>Hurrah for your mom for helping your friends! It's too bad that your GC was not particularly helpful. At our school, the GC is responsible for all 240 or so seniors & anyone else who wants to talk to them before they become a senior (so he really has his hands full). He encourages each child to apply to a range of schools--some likelies, matches & reaches. Students & their families still have to do quite a bit of the work to find the right "fit." My niece's school has a better ratio for students/GC. Still, her family spent a lot of $ & energy helping each kid find the right "fit."</p>
<p>I can't imagine going through my counselor at my home public high school. She probably has around 120 kids to take care of.</p>
<p>I'm lucky that I was able to have the dean/counselor at my magnet school (I go there half the day) take care of everything. She only had about 50 kids to take care of and was familiar with the process. (Last year was her first year at magnet school, kids got into Cornell, MIT, Caltech)</p>
<p>I agree with jlong.
I understand that our families circumstances may not be typical, but only because of the amount of effort we've exerted over the years mentoring our children through the HS and college search process have our children been successful students.
I agree with her comments that the typical GC at a public school should not be relied upon to decide which college your child is qualified for and where they should apply. That's up to the parents.
I could write a book about our experiences, but the first chapter would be relaying what I learned from reading 20-40 books about the college admissions process. Some parents told me I should go into business counseling college applicants. (I won't.)
It's not up to the GC, it's up to the parents, and ultimately, the student.
If the child doesn't have parents who will take the initiative, in my opinion their college admissions process will suffer. The degree of parent involvement depends upon the student. An overachiever will only require the parent explaining what's required and providing a "road map" the student should follow. Then, facilitating the search if of utmost importance.
I'm speaking from a public HS perspective, and realize there are exceptional public HS counselors. Much more is to be expected from a private prep school.
To sum up; yes, as a parent going through the process, very valuable experience is gained.
The experience as a student gaining admissions to an elite college is also very invaluable. So, if a GC has attended an elite college, they will understand what it takes.</p>
<p>Mom of Three: My hat is off to you! I am sure you have gained immense "practice wisdom" from the efforts you make year round to help students get to college, and I admire your dedication.<br>
Our public high school has a dismal graduation rate that floats near only 50%, and the overload on GCs is almost unbearable to witness at times. I am still stunned that my S had such great options last year, and although we have thanked every adult in town who served as mentor or advisor, we never saw the content of any letters written on his behalf. Without CC, we would have had so little of the larger picture for perspective on selective colleges applications. S was assigned his third GC (new to our region and to the profession) right before his applications were done.<br>
I see so many students in need of adults who will help them find a foothold in the college scene.<br>
You are doing profoundly important work.</p>