<p>Can a student who describes himself/herself as a liberal democrat be happy at West Point? As for religion, if a student is more of a Christmas & Easter attendee (although serves as an acolyte when scheduled), would that student be comfortable at West Point?</p>
<p>Does the degree of your political views (conservative v. moderate or liberal)and the strenght of your personal religious beliefs (evangelical/born again v. non-evangelical, not born again) play a part in your happiness/acceptance (by your peers) at WP?</p>
<p>Don’t know about WP, but I will say that the military as a whole leans Right. Republican Congressman/Senators are more supportive…this is my experience as a spouse of 20 yrs. </p>
<p>That being said, I have not found an officer who does not support the views that they personally disagree with. Remember the oath that you will swear to is to uphold the constitution…religion and political views are a part of this.</p>
<p>You need to ask yourself what makes you a liberal democrat? Is it abortion, affirmative action? I find it to be a dichotomy to say that you are a liberal democrat, but are willing to serve. I do not mean this offensively, but most liberals do not believe in this war, and I question how you can come to an acceptance as a liberal, that the war is just. IMHO if you can’t than WP might not be a good fit.</p>
<p>Also as far as active duty, religion is not an issue…nobody talks about it. You will see colleagues at church/synagogue, but that does not make you best buddies.</p>
<p>Finally, you must ask yourself if the war continues for the next 5 yrs. are you ready to go? There should be no caveats, yes or no. I say this b/c you will have to follow a direct order to go and if you don’t understand that this may happen, run, do not walk to a college of your choice.</p>
<p>As an officer you lose every right, that you are defending. You cannot go and picket the Berkeley Marines, you cannot say that this war is wrong, you cannot say we should talk and not invade. You can only follow a direct order, no matter how you personally feel.</p>
<p>Best of luck. I hope this was not too harsh, but makes you realize how your life will change for 9 yrs.</p>
<p>I like to think I lean fairly far to the left and I am not sure I agree with that answer. I dont feel in any way that I am betraying my personal beliefs to serve. Do I think we should have invaded Afghanistan, yes. Do I think we should have invaded Iraq, no. I was unconvinced as to the need before the war even started. (Not that I have any interest in debating this on college confidential, I only say it because I think it is helps my point) All of this is irrelevant however when it comes to my decision to serve. I don’t serve, and nor do I have any desire to serve conditionally. Providing my orders are legal, I will follow them and do whatever it takes to get the job done.</p>
<p>So back to the issue I think you brought up. Do I think we should have invaded Iraq? No. Do I have to be a Republican to disagree with the Democratic party line on Iraq? No. Would I go to Iraq? In a heartbeat, with no thought to the contrary. Are there others like me here? A surprising number acutally if you had any doubts.</p>
<p>To answer O2’s question, no one will ever, in my experience, hold any your opinions against you, and you are absolutely right in having them, no matter what they are. The only limitations that really ever come in to play do so when you are in uniform in public. Your opinions are just that, yours, and when you are in uniform you are a representative of the government. So if you feel like going to a protest or to help out a campaign after hours and out of uniform, more power to you.</p>
<p>There are plenty of democrats at West Point, in the Army and in the rest of the Armed Services.
Military service is apolitical. Although the media will have you believe otherwise - you can be a liberal and serve your country. You cannot actively campaign for a political candidate as a member of the armed service.</p>
<p>The greatest thing about our country is the secret ballot vote. Just because you are military doesn’t mean you will vote Republican. No one can tell you how to vote.</p>
<p>Religion - you don’t have to be religious. No one can make you attend religious services, proselytizing is discouraged.</p>
<p>First of all, Bullet will come home and change before he enters a Lowe’s or Wal-Mart. To say that you can go and protest because it is off duty IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY WRONG!!! You wear that uniform 24/7. I have personally experienced Bullet running back in the house on our way out (on a weekend)to change into a uniform and not seing him for the next 24 hrs </p>
<p>If you want to protest off duty, go for it, but when the local newspaper takes a picture of you and prints it, be ready to stand in front of the commanders desk the next day. YOU CANNOT EXPRESS YOUR OPINION, YOUR JOB IS TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND YOU SHOULD ALWAYS BE NEUTRAL.</p>
<p>“most liberals do not believe in this war, and I question how you can come to an acceptance as a liberal, that the war is just. IMHO if you can’t than WP might not be a good fit.”</p>
<p>Bulletandpima: I think that many cadets at WP would disagree with you. One thing is for sure. The prof’s at WP do not spoonfeed one political line of thought to cadets. Cadets are allowed and encouraged to hold their own political points of view. I believe the Yuks wrote a term paper for military science (?) last semester on the topic of whether the Iraq war was just or not. I know that in my son’s class there were many who argued it was not.</p>
<p>If that came out like you can go and lead a protest, or anything like that I apologise, but this is what has been briefed to us and I can only speak to my experience. As long as I am fairly certain that my opinions will be received as my own and not a representation of the government I have not hesitated to express them if someone asks.</p>
<p>*The group’s founder, former Air Force lawyer Mikey Weinstein, said he has documented 6,800 testimonies by military personnel – nearly all of them Christians – of sometimes punitive or humiliating attempts to make them accept a fundamentalist evangelical interpretation of Christianity.</p>
<p>“I am at war with those people who would create a fundamentalist Christian theocracy in the technologically most lethal organization ever created by our species, which is the United States armed forces,” he said.</p>
<p>He plans to add extra charges and possibly other lawsuits this month.</p>
<p>“It violates title seven of the US code for an employer to push their Biblical world view on an employee,” he said. “But it’s a trillion times worse when that is not just your shift manager at Starbucks but that is your military superior.”</p>
<p>He singles out one of the major Christian groups in the military, the Officers Christian Fellowship (OCF).</p>
<p>The group represents 15,000 US military personnel around the world, according to its director, retired Air Force general Bruce Fister.*</p>
<p>the constitution you defend does not contain a single word about political parties… do and believe what you feel is right… if any american was prevented in doing or believing what they felt was right, to include attending a protest, then that is no longer america.</p>
<p>I am not shocked that cadets are against the war and I applaud them for expanding their minds.</p>
<p>I will say as an active duty spouse, if you decide to publicly expose your opinions be aware that it might come back and bite you.</p>
<p>You will take the oath to uphold the Constitution. You are to be impartial, signing your name to a petition or protesting is not impartial.</p>
<p>I have been with Bullet since he was in college, I pinned his butter bars on. We have never vocally supported anything. The military is APOLITICAL…you are to follow orders. All I was stating is what I see in the active duty community that where we are currently assigned.</p>
<p>RAH RAH I am speechless…sorry</p>
<p>I now will leave this thread because I am too concerned that military cadets believe that they can be vocal about their opinions. A little concerned that cadets feel free to say you can say anything, with no experience in the active duty world.</p>
<p>Bulletandpima: I believe the OPs question was specific to West Point and not the military in general. WP is an academic institution, and a good one. In that light, cadets are encouraged to analyse information and think critically. In my mind this is a good thing. Isn’t this what higher education is all about? For what it is worth, my son tells me that there is very little political discussion amongst cadets outside of the classrooms.</p>
<p>^^^ I stated that I understood in my 1st post that I knew this was about WP. However, you cannot seperate the WP from the military life. They are integrated, since cadets will become officers. This is not simply an issue for 4 years, it carries a committment and a life after graduation. This must be remembered when any cadet enters. Higher education is a part of the equation, but you will spend many years afterwards as an officer. </p>
<p>I have socialized for many years with many officers in various situations (O’Club, dinner parties, squadron functions, etc). Political conversation are discussed in social situations. I feel quite confident that even today at our current station I can tell you how the majority feels about this war and their political beliefs. I can also tell you that I have never heard of anyone protesting in any political aspect after hours/off duty.</p>
<p>The Effects of Military Affiliation, Gender, and Political Ideology on Attitudes toward the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq
Abstract:
The United States armed-forces-and-society intersection is explored comparing attitudes toward the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan among West Point, Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (ROTC), and civilian undergraduates. A survey was administered in January and February 2003 to determine if military affiliation is associated with attitudes toward sending troops into Afghanistan after the war started and Iraq before sending troops. Majorities of all students supported both war efforts, though United States Military Academy at West Point and ROTC cadets are somewhat more supportive of both wars compared to civilian students. However, most differences are explained by students’ gender and political affiliation, suggesting that differences between groups result from selection effects rather than cultural differences. The authors contend a fourth wave in civil-military affairs potentially has emerged in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 through a civil-military attitude fusion complicated by a gender-politics gap.</p>
<p>Bulletandpima: You may have noticed that I have not mentioned cadets or military personnel taking part in protests.<br>
My disagreement with you is in regard to your assertion that WP would not be a good fit for a candidate unless he/she believes that the Iraq war is a “just war” (ie that the war fits the criteria of Just War Theory).</p>
<p>Folks,
As the OP, my original question simply asked if a cadet who considered him or herself a liberal democrat and not particularly religious could be happy and accepted (by peers) at WP. Nothing else, nothing more.</p>
<p>It was not my intention to have the war in Iraq be dragged into this discussion. It has more to do with the cadet/institutional culture at West Point.</p>
<p>“cadet who considered him or herself a liberal democrat and not particularly religious could be happy and accepted (by peers) at WP.”</p>
<p>without a doubt. </p>
<p>I have never been to church here outside of Beast, and have never, ever, not even once, been confronted about, nor have I ever been proselytized in any way. </p>
<p>There are many cadets here with a wide range of political views, and none of them are ostracized for them, regardless of what they may be. </p>
<p>So, a ‘liberal democrat’ would have no problem fitting in at West Point. I know many you could label as such, and that is not held against them.</p>
<p>I am extremely conservative, and have very liberal friends. I also get attacked by liberals at school who dont share my beliefs. Am I still happy? Yes. I think that if you’re going to USMA with the perspective that “I’m a liberal and you better respect me for being one” then you are going into the military with the wrong attitude. Friction is created by differing opinions. Its up to you whether you will make a point of everything that as a liberal you are right, then I can see alot of problems. But if you’re willing to cast aside differences, then I’m sure you’ll be accepted for who you are, regardless of political affiliation. </p>
<p>BTW, I find it hard not to bring up the Iraq war and Active duty service as well, as they are inter-related, and to take them out of the equation would skew the answer.</p>
<p>“It was not my intention to have the war in Iraq be dragged into this discussion. It has more to do with the cadet/institutional culture at West Point.”</p>
<p>O2b@C: What do you want to know about the cadet/institutional culture?</p>