<p>Iwishyouwell- Amen again! :)</p>
<p>Iwishyouwell, you were already the author of one of my all-time favorite CC posts and now here you go again with another that is both insightful and thoughtful. Not mean spirited nor protective. You’re an enormous asset to anyone in the hunt for a school and I do hope people really do read what you are saying. Clearly you are not protective of the home team you are just calling it as it is.</p>
<p>I think NYU gets perhaps a little more heat by virtue of its size. It means the target is just that much more visible which makes it easier to love and I suppose easier to hate. And people can love it without really knowing specifically why (I confess that was probably my daughter to some extent) but hating it for not knowing specifically why … that’s just a shame so thank you for hanging in and responding to these students and parents who are actually in the heat of things now. It’s better as they work through their options that they have the facts. Amen again as supportive already said.</p>
<p>By no means would myself or my D put down any theater program. People are just better suited or looking for different programs. My D is just looking for more of a conservatory program than NYU has to offer. In any industry there are going to be people who are better and people who are not as good. The whole reason why she has decided to go to school and not work (as she has been working in the industry for years now) is to get the serious classical training and to learn from professionals and her peers. What’s nice about the callback weekends is the ability of a prospective student to really become immersed in the program offered and to see the caliber of the students at the program already and who will possibly attend. You also get to see the style of teaching. Unfortunately with NYU she hasn’t had that opportunity as they don’t offer that. In many of the callbacks even, (not a full weekend) the faculty really work with you, and you get to see their approach. This really helped her narrow down her options as well.</p>
<p>Congrats Actingmom 18 on all the options your daughter has. Love this Board but the one consistent thing that is annoying is that if anyone ever says anything remotely negative about Tisch you’ve got Tisch parents high fiving each other to stomp down any dissent.</p>
<p>For the record, I am not a Tisch parent!!! Neither of my children even wanted to audition there…</p>
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<p>High praise that I take to heart. Thank you so much!</p>
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<p>An absolute downside. Tisch drama rests too highly on it’s reputation, and it’s high demand, leaving perspective students looking to test the waters before purchase totally out in the cold (save taking part in an expensive summer training program). I know you are very proud of your daughter, and she obviously is a caliber talent. I wish her the very best in her journey, as a student, and most importantly, a fellow artist.</p>
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<p>Not only rude, but incredibly presumptive. I am not a “Tisch parent”. I am a proud Tisch alum, here speaking my own experience, my own truth, that I know first hand. I also have no trouble talking about my less than positive experiences with NYU-Tisch (and I have), though they are thankfully few. I don’t frequent CC nearly enough to be caught up on all the latest petty grievances, squabbles, and annoyances. If you have a problem with “Tisch parents” trying so silence dissent, I’d recommend you lay your issues at their feet. I also can not fathom what any other poster in this thread so far has said to warrant such an absurd response. It seems to me that an excellent BFA program was perhaps dismissed without warrant, or misinformation was presented, and a few posters stepped in to clarify and educate. I’m sure that kind of informed rebuttal would be appreciated in most circles.</p>
<p>Touche iwishyouwell! You are such an excellent writer!</p>
<p>Oh please Iwishyouwell – there was one sentence in the OP’s post related to NYU. It read as follows – “Haven’t heard from NYU yet but she’s really not interested as she likes the selectivity of the other programs.” Her post was about going to Purchase or Rutgers. It is an absolute an undisputable fact that these two programs are more selective, i.e. a lower percentage of the total applicant pool gets accepted. NYU would have to have like 15,000 applicants to have the same selectivity as Purchase.</p>
<p>The post wasn’t really about NYU. It was about choosing between Purchase or Rutgers. But this thread became about NYU because it was perceived as a slight and you felt compelled to respond. Sorry that I did not realize you were a student rather than a parent. And while actingmom18 could probably have phrased better the comment about caliber of some of the students, it is equally true that taking 230 kids and counting academics/gpa as 50 percent of the evaluation process is going to result in a quality variability from 1 to 230 that is different from a program like Purchase that takes like 15 kids. Now, I’m not saying there are not lots and lots of exceptional actors who graduate from Tisch but you aren’t going to have all 230 kids the caliber of the kids that get into Rutgers or Purchase. </p>
<p>Your comment about Tisch being “dismissed without warrant” is to me the sort of defensive response that I see quite a bit. The program was not dismissed “without warrant” The OP had a reason – which was factually accurate – about why she was not interested in Tisch. Her reasons don’t require a response other than to turn this thread into Tisch. I know I’m not helping in that regard and I probably should have stayed out of it as the diversion would have stopped sooner if I had. You can have the last word as I won’t contribute to the diversion any further. </p>
<p>And by the way, I too am speaking my truth about being annoyed about Tisch defensiveness. Since you don’t read these boards much by your own admission you probably missed the thread when I had my head bit off for suggesting that Juilliard and/or CMU rather than Tisch are considered the top programs in the country and many would also rank UNCSA, Rutgers, Purchase and BU ahead of it as well. That I considered it a top 10ish program rather than the #1 program in the country was apparently fighting words to Tisch parents</p>
<p>Can I just say “wow” before I think of something more intelligent to say? (Which I will but it not be until tomorrow when I’ve gotten over my initial reaction). Can I also encourage ActingDad to please search on each and every post I’ve ever made in CC (and yikes I have way too many) for proof of Tisch defensiveness? 'Cause you won’t find it unless it is specific to misinformation that I questioned. And then would ActingDad please re-examine some of his own posts and assumptions? That would be fair play. </p>
<p>For the record… go to Tisch, don’t go to Tisch… either scenario is OK with me. Just don’t dismiss it for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the experience of being there because unlike you, we do know what being there actually looks like. Do you want us to take our cookies to our rooms and not say that and if so why? How is that helpful? Is that responsible help for a broader audience that is trying to decide what to do and is asking? My dander is not up about Tisch (I don’t care if you or anyone else like Tisch or not and I absolutely agree that if it isn’t for you… don’t go there) but my dander is REALLY up about “Iwishyouwell” who is by far one of the most thoughtful posters (and he/she is NOT advocating anything) that one could ever come across.</p>
<p>Amen halflokum! I always find it best to take advice from someone who was actually in the program of which they speak! (or at least has a child that is or was part of that said program- and I’m not counting summer programs because that is not the same as a college’s BA/BFA program)</p>
<p>Actually, I consider myself a reasonable poster but what ActingDad said is correct, NYU Tisch people are very sensitive about any posting they see as the tiniest slight to their school. It is an overriding theme that has been on this board for the 5 or 6 years that I’ve been on CC. I try not to get involved but I must admit, I do from time to time. This is one time I am. The original statement was minor, the response was over the top. All the OP said was that her daughter felt that way, no one took it as fact and you can’t change your feelings for a school, it is what it is. My daughter wouldn’t apply to NYU/Tisch even though she would have been guaranteed admission, she just wasn’t interested, it wasn’t for her. Is it right, it doesn’t matter, it was right for her.</p>
<p>Sorry OP.</p>
<p>I also am a long time poster who has been on CC since 2005 and who posts sporadically now. I guess people with the same experience can see things differently. The way I see it is that Tisch is big and very visible in the theatre/film world and admission to its program requires not just talent but also fairly strong academics and in some cases quite a bit of money. Some are resentful of Tisch because they assume Tisch is out-of-reach due to their weak academics or lack of adequate funds, so they try to compensate by minimizing the program. Others are simply confused by the unique structure of the Tisch program. I have seen people spread misinformation about Tisch every year since 2005. (And I wasn’t a Tisch parent then, I just became one a few months ago. I guess I ignored the rumors since I have some first-hand information.) There is nothing wrong with correcting misinformation if there are facts to share. As far as comparing Tisch to other strong BFA programs, I think it’s rather sophomoric to treat these comparisons like some sort of sports competition. CMU, Juilliard, Mason Gross, Tisch, UNCSA, Purchase, Northwestern, BU (and that’s not a complete list of top programs) are all renowned, successful programs and it’s not helpful to posters trying to make college decisions to play the ratings game. And that’s what it is, a silly game. The HS kids on the general board love to play it with their schools, “Princeton is number 1, no Stamford is, no University of Chicago!” People trying to make a decision need to compare things like specific curriculum, location, length of program, vibe on campus and their particular needs. That’s what I, for one, have been trying to help the OP with on this post.</p>
<p>And, btw, ActingDad-You still don’t have it right. Iwishyouwell is not a student. He/she is a working actor who graduated from Tisch a while ago and was nice enough to come on CC and share first-hand information about Tisch and acting with the group.</p>
<p>Some people are just not interested in NYU PERIOD. Resentful? Sophmoric arguments? Really? I don’t think so. What? it cost that much less to go to CMU, BU? I don’t think so. Academically challenging to get into BU? You bet. It doesn’t matter if you are a Tony nominee, struggling artist, high school graduate…everyone is entitled to their own gut feeling without implications from some actor that their gut is wrong. Congratulations to actingmom18’s daughter on such fantastic choices. It would be a more interesting read if this board could return to the discussion of these robust choices.</p>
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It’s been a running joke about this forum for years now. Seriously.</p>
<p>AdaQyince-When I referred to NYU’s cost I meant it’s cost after financial aid. NYU seems not to give some people the financial aid they need, given it’s high cost. And I never assumed most people on these boards had any interest in attending
Tisch. I was referring to people I have seen over the years who make it a point to minimize the Tisch program. And, yes, I agree with you, let’s get back to helping the OP make the hard decisions with her daughter. I shared my D’s experience with living overseas and attending school there. If anyone has specific information about Mason Gros, Purchase or Lamda they should share it.</p>
<p>What difference does it make REALLY how selective a college is? I went to two colleges that are NOT selective at all, because that’s where I could get the education I was looking for. Yes, there were some people at each of those who I thought didn’t really belong there, but how did that affect my education? Not at all. I remember the guy who sat through a whole semester of “Text Analysis” before he said “I’ve been here all semester and this is the first time I’ve had the courage to raise my hand”. We all applauded him. He was intimidated by the fact that all the rest of us were so passionate about theatre and knew so much more than he did.</p>
<p>Similarly in Law School. My Law School took pretty much anyone who applied, but once we got there they said “Okay, here is the standard we expect you to work to, if you can’t meet this standard you will have to leave the program”. And many people did have to leave the program that first year!</p>
<p>I went to these schools because they were used to people who had unusual learning styles (like me!). These were the places where there was an environment where I could learn. That’s what was important to me.</p>
<p>NYU Tisch has a very good reputation, and a lot of our most admired actors seem to have gone there. Who cares if they let in somebody else? I am always happy to be one of the biggest frogs in the pond.</p>
<p>For those who offered kind words, again thank you. How gracious some of the members of CC have proven to be in the very short time I’ve posted here!</p>
<p>As long as I am here I will continue to speak from my own perspective, and experience, with my former university as honestly as I know how. I loved my time at NYU, at Tisch, and am very proud of my alma mater. I hope that all of your children end up a college, university, conservatory, what have you, that they are just as proud of years after they have turned those tassels. University is such an important, and potentially life changing, time in your life. Trust me when I say, it’s worth the weight in gold to be able to look back after the fact and feel amazing about the choice you made, the education you gained, and the doors it opened in your life. It is an amazing feeling.</p>
<p>If there are those who take any issue with that, I’d recommend you scroll right on by.</p>
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<p>Absolutely. I touched upon this in another post, but I transferred into NYU from a community college. I could wax just as poetically on the absolutely AMAZING time I had at my little community college. If given the choice, to go back and do my entire undergraduate education at NYU, or stick with the path I took, I wouldn’t change that. NYU was my dream school, had been since I was in middle school, but my community college experience was this sublime surprise that I never could have foreseen, and wouldn’t change for anything.</p>
<p>You can find your joy anywhere.</p>
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<p>This is true. </p>
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<p>Not the largest, but probably one of the largest. 
The studio system is what allows Tisch to have so many students.</p>
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<p>It doesn’t make that much difference, but applicants have a right to take it into consideration if they choose to.</p>
<p>I just lost my inner battle not to comment further.</p>
<p>If we take grades, essays, hooks etc. out of the college application equation and say the only thing that matters is talent. Then if we have some way of identifying the 20 most talented kids and send them all like a pack of wolves to audition at CMU, UNCSA, Purchase, pick whatever school you want that admits less than 20 (and let’s assume each of these programs admit what?.. let’s go with 12 like CMU) and then also NYU and BU and assume they take 100 it is absolutely the case that everyone gets into NYU & BU and 8 people don’t get into the other programs. I’m with you 100 percent on that. If that is the definition of one school being more selective than the other, ok.</p>
<p>But the thing is that is not how the world works. These kids do not travel in packs and the same 20 most talented kids enter into their admissions hunt with preconceived notions about where it is that they want to apply. So sure, there are only 12 spots in some programs but what if only 2 of those top 20 are even interested in applying to one of those programs or even to a program with 100 spots? How does one take that into account when it comes to selectivity if we are exclusively talking about talent? </p>
<p>The reality is that if you don’t get into a selective program, it doesn’t matter if you were the 13th choice or the 100th choice, not in is not in. I think it is completely reasonable to look at the schools selectivity (or at least admission odds) in a silo. How many apply and how many do they take? That can help you to understand how selective it would be for you to get into a PARTICULAR school. But where it gets tricky is when one compares the selectivity of one school vs. another. That just is not a straight numbers game because you’d have to know exactly who is in the applicant pool to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions. And we don’t have that data and we never will. That is why I don’t think “relative selectivity” is meaningful but if you do, have at it but good luck calculating it.</p>
<p>Amen halflokum! Also, if we all wanted this process to be just, then we should have pushed our kids to do sports. It doesn’t matter how you look or who you know when you cross that finish line first. :)</p>