<p>haahah wow...^^^ keep telling yourself that buddy that everything is in the name of "democracy". dont be stupidly quixotic and say the US entered world war two to save the world because they didnt. they wanted to remain neutral until they were attacked by the japanese. also, the allies had knowledge that jews were being slaughtered in all the documents that have been released before things turned to worse. your logical fallacies are pretty abundant..i wont even highlight them. you are the kind of person who is influenced by argumentum in terrorem. quit being stupid and maybe u should learn some history about other countries and quit being overly ethnocentric thinking the US invented democracy and free speech. why is that that conservatives like u alwasy think a person who critisizes is "antiamerican" au contraire i belive it is our duty to challenge this misconceptions. the revolutionaries against the spaniards were inspired to fight for their people but not to model something else correlation does not imply causation buddy. and it is colombia not columbia so u definitly need a little brush up there too. If anything the US military and similar agencies like the CIA has messed things up in latin america even more destabilizing governments inciting revolution in panama to build their own canal becasue the colombian governement wouldnt budge. or what about the dictators the US has supported (sadam hussain, batista in cuba, etc) is the US really for democracy? ive alwassy found it funny how much it flips flops back and forward.</p>
<p>
[quote]
how about this country was the one that ended a war that would have otherwise eliminated a whole race of people from the earth.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>well america wouldn't have entered the war at all if a)the japanese hadn't attacked pearl harbour b)hitler hadn't started attacking american ships for no obvious purpose. its not as if america entered the war out of sheer benevolence.</p>
<p>and just so long as you're wanting to play the 'you owe us big time' card, why don't you remember that without the english you'd all be speaking apache indian.</p>
<p>and i always get angered by the anti french feeling here in the US because they dont go along like "sex buddies" of bush like tony blair on all of his caprices and show more character and independent thinking. the us is governed by a person who repeats everything ten times when he speaks and then rewords the same things agan to refute his critics making no sense whatsoever. if it wasnt for the frech they US would have lost the american revolution. i know the french werent in it for benevolence either but it is still something. did u know the american generals went to la fayettes tumb during one of the wars..ww1 or two and said? here we are at ur doors we are here to repay our debts? do not play the u owe us something moron.</p>
<p>MUnited: a fun link if you sincerely believe that the usa is so good to the global community:
<a href="http://www.tomveatch.com/dictatorships.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.tomveatch.com/dictatorships.html</a></p>
<p>DID YOU KNOW:</p>
<p>The french have not won a single war by themselves since Joan of Arc. (Note: Technically Napoleon lost in the end so he doesn't count. He was also from Corsica, not France)</p>
<p>and how is that relevant...does winning wars mean anything? and im sure ur comment is quite spurious in its historical accuracy but i wont care to look into its veracity.</p>
<p>I am not necessarily saying that all the US has done has been great. For example I admit that our actions in central america, and our relationships with south american and african dictatorships are quite bad. However, I am fed up with individuals who do nothing but blatantly blame the United States. </p>
<p>Of course the US did not enter WW2 because it wanted to save democracy, everyone should know that. However, one must admit that the United States has greatly helped the world evovle to a better state. For example, our revolution helped spark a series of revolutions in south america and europe. Secondly, our involvement in WW1 and 2, no matter the reasons, has certainly enabled democracy to spread across the world. Our belief that Britian should give up its colonies, no matter how selfish on our part, did expose many to freedom. </p>
<p>Also, for those who prepetually blame the US: Look at this way. The fact that the US exists led to the fact that you are able to complain. Although many of you don't want the Iraq War, ill admit i've had my second thoughts, the end point is that Saddam needed to go. </p>
<p>As for the dude who states "without english we'd all be speaking apache". Well British man, without you my ancestors would not have been slaves of your ****ty empire for 200 years. </p>
<p>In the end no matter how much complain, the fact that you can complain and not worry about your colonial masters, or royal ones coming to draw and quarter you, means that in the end the US has had a far better and more drastic impact on history. </p>
<p>For those who say that the American military was evil. Look at this way, most of the international wars were solved by the American Military. And if the US military had not been there, then this collegeboard website would not exist. :D</p>
<p>Post hoc ergo propter hoc ^^^^</p>
<p>if i must say one thing it is that how exactly is our current discussion related to the "114 million dollar gift" situation? :D</p>
<p>Now in response to Serge, how exactly am I false?
<em>How many functioning democracies were there in the 200 hundred years prior to the American Revolution? (none)
*</em>Of the revolutions which came about afterwards which had a direct link to the U.S? (France..yes; Simon Bolivar and the rest of South America.....and the list goes on an on)
<em>As for a current fact..let's look at this: India's current constitution is partly based off of the US's. So how can you say the US has not had a positive impact.
*Secondly, in a nation's rise to power how can they not be militarily powerful. To exert influence you must have a military. I know this is a a fact that you folks isoloated in academia cannot grasp but realize it, it's the real world.<br>
*Also, look at American contributions to science, literature and a variety of other subjects.
*</em><em>Space exploration
*</em><em>Medicine
*</em>*Mathematics
::In reality Serge you have false preception. Currently, it is a fashion of sorts to criticize every aspect of the U.S., and you are mindlessly going with the flow without making a single coherent arguement.
::As for the rest, do not think that I am some sort of Bill O'Riley type of promoter, instead I am stating the obvious, America has had an enormous influence over the course of history, and yes it has sometimes been negative, but often it has been for the better. And yes, the world does owe the US some respect, because, in actuality we instigated the processes which have led to the modern face of the world.</p>
<p>a modicum of intellect, i.e.</p>
<p>How do the enlightened become so dulled? At least they've got lots of company wanting in their sinking raft.</p>
<p>Munited, again you misrepresent the facts. democracy was theorized by the greeks and described by aristotle in his books. this "pure democracy" was used in the greek city states for the most part. the romans had to adapt that democracy to their own kind of democracy to mold it to their gigantic size. it could no longer be direct democracy. the romans had a senate and many things that are still used today. why is it that people like u always confuse causation with correlation all the time in an effort to justify or ornament somethng that doesnt need to be so. yes it is true that at the time of the creation of the united states after breaking away from europe, the best way of government asd regarded by most people was ruling by nepotism. the US went through its stages until it decided on a democracy which modeled history and yes with some innovations but the founders basically took alot of foreign ideas. people quote jefferson as if he came up with the idea of inelienable rights even though he pretty much stole that from jhnon lock and changed the persuit of property to the persuit of happiness. the same thing applies to montesquieu, russeau, and others. it is basically an amalgam of european thought put together. Im not some anarchist or something and i believe that democracy is one of the best forms of governement and just because i critiseze the american policies doesnt mean i dotn recognize their contribution to sciences although those things would not have been possible without the rennaissance. so do you owe europe according to ur logic? also, im not saying power is bad but it is the use of that power that changes it. do not get too full of yourself what goes up must come down, not all that shines is gold. all im trying to do is point out that it is not all white as you would liek to belive because u are blind by nationalism and patriotism. it is good to critize, that is the way you show the government that it must change. why is it that o'reilly people like you who are completly closeminded to other ideas always think it is wrong to crisize. according to locke, who called that a "peaceful revolution" is the way to reform the governement. some day i hope, that the american people will realize and reform their policies to not alienate the rest of the world with their ethnocentric "i dont care about the others because we kick butt" current train of thought and zeitgeist.</p>
<p>Do you feel better? </p>
<p>Waaaaaaaay too many words man. Din't the ol' Enlish prof ascert briefer the better?</p>
<p>Tighten up your thoughts and writing, laddie. Then they might get read.</p>
<p>i don't think its wrong to criticize, obviously criticism leads to further progression. However, I do take offense to people (i.e. Whistle Pig) who attack me because my point of view is different than theirs. However, I do completely understand your point of view, as in democracy there are always two differing points of view from which common ideal must be reached.</p>
<p>My point was only that the US had a positive impact on the world, and this was made to counter the continuous claims of the US's negative influence. Also, as an American (albiet the 1st generation one of immigrant parents) it is natural that I defend my country. As I am pretty sure a Colombian would not take it to kindly if I sat here and bashed Colombia continuously without mentioning any of its positive attributes. Also, I never claimed that the US was the creator of democracy, however, in my opinion the fact that the US put the theories of Locke and the other philosophers to use actually caused democratic reform to occur. Otherwise, the theories of locke and the others would have merely be relegated as unfeasible. Also, Americans are by nature protective of their country, maybe the world should be more open minded and come to accept it. However, by no means am I saying that the US is perfect, nor are we the creators of democracy, however, I still do believe that many peoples of this world owe the US a little gratitude, no matter how little. Also, I do view the world to be a bit hypocritical in that they all rush out and attack the US, however, no one says a single word to nations like China.</p>
<p>In my opinion why don't you all expend all of these energies on combating the greatest of evils of this world, instead of attacking those that are the easiest for you all to reach.</p>
<p>Also, remember that in order for the US to rise to power we had to step on a few toes, otherwise, we would simply be another nonessential nation like the Netherlands, whose advice and ideas are simply ignored by the world. To be a leader you have to make a few people unhappy (reality check). The world is too complicated for someone to just play nice and expect to be a successful individual or nation.</p>
<p>i am american.</p>
<p>but i realize that america's influence on the world has not been all sunshine and lollipops.</p>
<p>while we won world war ii, we perpetuated military dictatorships throughout central and south america for the better part of the 20th century, almost singlehandedly destabilizing the entire continent in ways that still impact those nations today.</p>
<p>we have galvanized the middle east against us by being unspeakably unethical in our actions and ridiculously arrogant in our conduct, from the first dollar we gave to the shah of iran in the 1970's to the dozens we have detained in guantanamo without evidence.</p>
<p>we have maintained a dogmatic, supercilious attitude towards the rest of the world, essentially giving a big "f*** you" to everyone who dare disagree with us. americans feel that they can do no wrong. unfortunately, that is not the case.</p>
<p>and this isn't about stepping on a few people's toes, as MUnited tries to argue. this is about how the usa enforces its ideology on whoever disagrees with it. how americans percieve disagreement with the usa as being tantamount to hostility. we are bullies, and the world isn't going to take it forever.</p>
<p>mindless jingoism, as espoused by Whisle Pig and MUnited, perpetuate these conditions that make America a far less positive influence on the global arena that it can be. we use our power in all the wrong ways.</p>
<p>However, one must realize that it was the environment of the world which forced the US's actions. Following WW2 it was the US vs the USSR, if we didn't put in pro-US government, then the Soviets would have put in pro-Soviet governments. If the US just sat down on its knees and told the Soviets that "do anything you want, we don't want to be aggressive" well for all we know democracy would still be the underdog. It's great and all to view everything in a idealistic way, however, you must remember that in the world of foreign policy it simply comes down to "win or lose". Everyone here may despise America's intervention into other nation's domestic policy, however, without the US interfering in Iran then the USSR would have, and then the Soviets would in effect have controlled that oil for an extremely long period of time, and do you think that they would simply hand it out salvation army style, no they would use as a hammer over the rest of the world. </p>
<p>Now, onto the present day situation. Do I believe that the Iraq War was done under the dubious reasons, yes, thus I concede this point to to you. However, as for Guantanamo, look at this way, these are terrorists (a.k.a. in my opinion the new Nazis) we should detain them until we know more about their intentions, and then we can maybe release back in to Afghanistan. However, I do agree that WE SHOULD NO TORTURE THEM!! Also, realize that if we do not keep them in GTMO, then we realease back in to Afghan. then we will only destabalize that country. </p>
<p>Therefore, my point is that foreign policy isn't like some advanced form of happy world, it's complicated, and one should keep that in mind before they bust out their idealism. See, if it weren't for the US stepping on people's toes, then we would all be living in country getting stepped on or crushed by the USSR, or some other nation (the next one just might be China).</p>
<p>Do I wish there was more nice? Yes! However, I approach the world in a logical sense, not from philosophical one. Nice can be created from what some call evil actions.</p>
<p>MU...</p>
<p>huh?</p>
<p>Note below: It says "post QUICK reply"</p>
<p>My apologies if I've offended. I confess. Not a clue what your many words are intended to communicate.</p>
<p>Quck is quicker ... to be read, understood. Streams of free thinking are costly.</p>
<p>now you're just trolling.</p>
<p>Munited, your arguments are all just if and then fallacies relying upon your own ascertions to support the latter. Now, whistlepig if you dont feel like reading long passages nobody forces you to be here-----nobody forces you to read NIETZSCHE buddy, stick to Dr. Seus.</p>