harvard is teasing me

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>...and i don't like to be teased. especially by a school i have NO interest in going to.</p>

<p>yes i am aware of their (actually, all schools have this) lower standards for minorities (i'm black) but um when i received HARVARD's application booklet in the mail, i was quite amazed. Back then, I received a 560M, 610V which are low scores for me. </p>

<p>why would an Ivy League try to play with me in this way? They made me think as if I could get into their school and maybe even my dream school- UNC.</p>

<p>but the more i think about it- with mediocrity like that, i can't get into any school i really want.
does any know the reason why they would do this, or anyone this has happened to? i would really appreciate truthful comments.</p>

2

<p>They send them to tens of thousands of kids your age every year. They aren't trying to "play" with you.</p>

<p>Don't tell yourself that you are mediocre. If you don't believe in yourself, how will you get UNC or any other school to believe in you and your future? Work hard on your applications and represent yourself in the best way that you can. Then, come April, no matter what the decision letters say, you can have no regrets.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
yes i am aware of their (actually, all schools have this) lower standards for minorities (i'm black) but um when i received HARVARD's application booklet in the mail, i was quite amazed. Back then, I received a 560M, 610V which are low scores for me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I work with the Undergrad. Minority Recruitment Program, and we (the other four summer coordinators and I) are likely part of the reason that you were sent that application booklet. You'll likely be getting a call before the end of the summer (so don't be surprised!). </p>

<p>First off, Harvard certainly has an Affirmative Action policy, but standards aren't "lowered" for anyone. There are enough overqualified URMS, legacies, etc. (in terms of "the numbers," which, unfortunately, don't tell you nearly as much about a person as people on CC would lead you to believe); Harvard doesn't have to "lower" its standards for the sake of being diverse. There are 23,000 applicants and only 2,000 slots--and the af. am. population is still only 9-10%. Let's get real. Black legacies get rejected. These things simply don't carry as much weight at Harvard as people think they do. Any admissions officer will tell you that. </p>

<p>Second, no one is playing with you -- we simply want to plant that Harvard seed in your mind for now, to at least get you thinking about applying to Harvard or even exploring elite colleges in general; because, as is clear from your post, you likely weren't thinking about it. </p>

<p>Hope that at least clears some of it up for you. You can e-mail us at <a href="mailto:umrp@fas.harvard.edu">umrp@fas.harvard.edu</a> if you have more questions.</p>

<p>PS. I know a white kid here with a score in the 900s. Anything can happen. But I would at least aim for a 650 or higher on each subsection, should you take the test again. Better to be safe than sorry. =)</p>

4

<br>


<br>

<p>i fully support AA, but must ask YOU to "get real" on this point.</p>

5

<p>i don't think harvard is teasing you either, and as you can see from saxfreq's post (which is a lot more verifiable than my own opinion lol) you should be proud of what you received in that there is a real and personal interest in you from harvard (kind of = there are so many). however, as in previous posts that have been brought up, it could also be for the purposes of lowering acceptance rates (though that's by no means provable). just thought i'd throw that in..</p>

<p>anyways, yes, work hard on your applications and don't be discouraged by Yourself or anyone else for that matter. it's all about the attempt, which becomes the success. what've you got to lose from trying? =p some sleep and not much else. good luck!!</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
i fully support AA, but must ask YOU to "get real" on this point.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, I think you're a bit off base here. </p>

<p>Harvard has an outstanding reputation. Accordingly, many underqualified people hoping to go there--of all races--will, yes, apply. And get rejected. Many qualified people will apply and, yes, get rejected.</p>

<p>But the entire AA debate always seems to hinge somewhat on whether or not the URMs who apply are underqualified, qualified, or--though rarely, because most of America seems to think this is impossible--overqualified. There is a degree of self-selectivity within certain communities that people arguing on both sides always fail to consider. Harvard still has a reputation for being a school that is a) impossible to get into and b) only for rich white kids. Oh, and c) way too expensive (that's a huge one). Think about it: if you're a poor kid with an 1100 (on the old scale), is the school with the really high avg. SAT score and the 46K tuition going to top your list? Many people--even people on CC--still don't know about HFAI or about how SAT scores are actually taken into consideration.</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that these underqualified URMs that people keep talking about, these "poor kids with the bad SAT scores" who have to have the standards "lowered" for them when they apply to Harvard aren't necessarily the majority of the URMs applying to Harvard. Because those kids are actually the ones that programs like mine are actively recruiting, to tell them about how white harvard /isn't/ or how expensive it /isn't/, which aren't necessarily things that the black kids at Exeter with great scores are worrying about.</p>

<p>You all really need to place more emphasis on context and less on "the numbers." There are poor white kids with bad SAT scores who are applying, as well--where's the argument that standards are "lowered" for them if, technically, they are facing the same educational disadvantages as the similar URM applicant? Why is it that when we see someone with a lower SAT score, we assume that they're black or latino, or if we know their race, we assume that they'll get in /because/ of their race? And what was GW's SAT score, again?</p>

<p>FYI, to get in /because of/ your race, as was the case at Michigan, is not AA, it's closer to racism. But don't worry; if Harvard applicants get in because of anything, it's because they deserve to be there. 'nuff said.</p>

7

<p>saxfreq--- I wanted to know how this all works?
1. How do you guys know the income of a certain student?
2. And how do you select them? Get all low income students' applications together and then choose together the ones that you think will do good at Harvard? Or do you guys just compare them to everyone else?
3. How do you work recruiting if you're a student? You guys are recruiting applicants or are you guys accepting?</p>

8

<p>Harvard finds potential applicants based on PSAT or, I guess, SAT scores, then usually sends them application booklets the summer before senior year. Usually they'll also get sent a postcard about the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative that they're asked to return to us if they're interested (that's how HFAI recruiters identify low-income students--based on self-identification.) UMRP finds URMs based on self-identification on the exams. Nothing top-secret--pretty basic and logical process.</p>

<p>The recruiters are students who work under and with admissions officers but who are NOT admissions officers--so we can't get you in. =) But we can offer a students' perspective and give you helpful information.</p>

9

<p>I always thought that you have to list your parents income if you apply for financial aid, so thats probably how they know about the income of a certain student.
@Sax
Have Harvard adcoms actually thought about a sort of "social AA" that is based on the social status of a person and not his race? Actually, it would make sense if poor students, no matter what ethnicity they belong to, receive some sort of special consideration, since they probably had worse conditions than other students.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
I always thought that you have to list your parents income if you apply for financial aid, so thats probably how they know about the income of a certain student.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Right, when applying for fin. aid, Harvard takes into consideration the income of your parents/guardians, as well as the student's income (if they had a job.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Have Harvard adcoms actually thought about a sort of "social AA" that is based on the social status of a person and not his race? Actually, it would make sense if poor students, no matter what ethnicity they belong to, receive some sort of special consideration, since they probably had worse conditions than other students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, we can't assume that this isn't already happening. Remember, every case is evaluated on an individual basis, and all of these things--where you go to school, family background, etc.--are all taken into consideration. These are things admissions officers try to tell people at info. sessions, but it might mean more hearing it from students who were in similar situations when they applied.</p>

11

<p>i got the letter asking if i wanted to know more about the financial aid plan, I was going to send it too, but when I came home from school that day my mom had cleaned and she threw it out. :( Is there another way I can get the letter or something?</p>

12

<p>Hm... so are u saying that adcoms are currently using a "social-race-mixture AA", since both factors are taken into consideration?
Do you happen to know how some stuff about international admissions, as well? Cos, basically, I was wondering how they evaluate German applicants since we're doing the Abitur, and therefore everyting is a little bit different. You wouldn't happen to know what GPA is considered good and how they actually calculate our GPA? Btw, we're using a 15 points system; 0 basically means that you've failed terribly, and 15 means ur almost a genius, ^^</p>

13

<p>ahh nvm i found the card thingy!! :D</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
Hm... so are u saying that adcoms are currently using a "social-race-mixture AA", since both factors are taken into consideration?
Do you happen to know how some stuff about international admissions, as well? Cos, basically, I was wondering how they evaluate German applicants since we're doing the Abitur, and therefore everyting is a little bit different. You wouldn't happen to know what GPA is considered good and how they actually calculate our GPA? Btw, we're using a 15 points system; 0 basically means that you've failed terribly, and 15 means ur almost a genius, ^^

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I didn't say that anything was for sure -- it's hard to say, none of us are admissions officers. But the process is thorough enough that, yes, I'd say it were a reasonable assumption.</p>

<p>For your other questions, you should call the admissions office.</p>

15

<p>thank you everyone for replying to this thread and shining some light on the whole AA situation. i did retake the SATs in june, and received a V&M score of 1310 (690 V, 620M) which is still not as great as i could've but wayyyy better than my 1170. </p>

<p>After reading the replies, especially from m_c and saxfreq1128, i thought really hard about where i stand academically. And after thinking about it over the last few days, i woke up this morning--i mean afternoon (hey its summer)-- to see a dark blue booklet with white text from Yale. </p>

<p>Yale? really? ii was pretty shocked. two ivy leagues i didnt request anything from? soooooooo i figured it could no longer be a joke. </p>

<pre><code> hey who knows i just might apply to one of them
</code></pre>

16

<p>saxfreq1128
I come from a fairly low income family, so does that mean that I will have a lesser chance of getting into Harvard? OR does the income not matter and the school will support me with financial aid based on need?</p>

17

<p>The latter.</p>

<p>Harvard has need-blind admissions, and need-based financial aid, meaning: your low income status won't be held against you during the admissions process and Harvard will do its best to match your demonstrated need with financial aid.</p>

<p>Haha, otherwise, many of my friends and I WOULD NOT be going to the big H.</p>

<p>Hope this helps!</p>

18

<p>Hey pearfire,</p>

<p>One thing that a lot of international applicants don't know is that international admissions are not need-blind. In other words, it's much harder to get in if you need financial assistance than if you don't (ONLY for those in the international community). U.S. applications, of course, ARE need blind; checking the "I am applying for financial aid" box doesn't penalize you at all.</p>

<p>saxfreq1128, please correct me if this has changed in the last year or so, along with all the other fin-aid changes. . . but I don't think so.</p>

<p>Audrey</p>

19

<p>International admissions are also need blind.</p>

20

<p>Byerly's right.</p>

<p>All Harvard admissions decisions--for all students, including internationals--are made on a need-blind basis. </p>

<p>But it's also true that the same cannot be said for schools with a smaller amount of money to dish out for financial aid.</p>