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<p>I’m with you completely on this.</p>
<p>Caltech’s basketball team hasn’t won a single GAME in 40 some years.</p>
<p>^^^
I think they won one recently. But it was historic.
[Caltech’s</a> surprise win over Occidental was mind-boggling - ESPN](<a href=“Madden 24 player ratings: Revealing the top 10 at each position - ESPN”>Caltech's surprise win over Occidental was mind-boggling - ESPN)</p>
<p>Caltech men’s basketball has had an incredible set of wins in 2010-11. They beat Eastern Nazarene, University of California, Santa Cruz (by 1 point), Wisconsin Lutheran, and Occidental (also by 1 point). Their schedule shows a win over American Sports University @ Redlands, also. Not sure what that is. The next time lderochi sets up the March Madness brackets, I’m going to look for Caltech.</p>
<p>The win over Occidental was their first in a conference game in approximately forever.</p>
<p>^^^
I certainly hope they didn’t have to admit anyone with a 2390 to achieve this roundball supremacy. :)</p>
<p>Sorry my info wasn’t most up-to dat. But before this school year Caltech’s reputation was not affect much by the facto that they hadn’t won a game for decades.
WUStl is a divIII or DivIV sports school.</p>
<p>^^^: Sports should be secondary to college which is basically academic institutes. There is more fun watching fellow students when students participates in games as amateurs than professional.
You can have elite institutes of learning without a Division I sports.</p>
<p>MIT supports a broad intercollegiate athletic program offering 33 varsity sports. MIT’s primary league affiliation lies with the New England Women’s and Men’s Athletic Conference (NEWMAC) as a Division III member of the NCAA. </p>
<p>MIT features one of the nation’s most expansive club programs, with over 900 participants and 35 teams.</p>
<p>Compromising academic ability for atheletic ability just to become better sports program in college admission is just absurd because college is basically institute for learning and not sports academy.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl
Actually, yes, music is usually very expensive and education goes on for pretty much the entire lifetime. In most cases, the longer one does it the better (talent is helpful but practice and expert instruction are also vital).
Older singers (who were Voice majors, something quite competitive, believe me) usually have a private teacher and opera coach, for example.
It’s pretty important that college students (whether at a SOM at a major uni or at a music conservatory) receive the best instruction, ensemble opportunities, solo opportunities possible in order to have a shot at a semi-solid future.
Looking at high school and college-aged students, for many instruments (there are variations) there is constant tough competition, the need to enter young artist competitions, be auditioned into famous summer music festivals, keep building that resume, practice, practice, practice, purchase a costly instrument, etc. It’s tough for some to take a break. There is the chance of injury, too.
I don’t like looking at music as constant competition, and strongly oppose the Tiger Mom approach, which is prevalent in classical music now, but enjoy those occasions when I hear of a deserving artistic musician with talent and heart who earns some accomplishment (whether a competition or not) – we still have such occasions, sometimes.
There are a lot of unrecognized talented musicians out there (there are just so MANY of them) - it breaks my heart when the general public is unaware, in the main, of these persons, while popularizing crap like American Idol et al.
With college students who are music majors, there are usually a lot of scholarships, merit and financial out there, so that’s what makes it possible. Also, a lot of student get “gigs,” meaning performing gigs, which are wide ranging and available here and there, with networking and connections (as well as artistry and skill of course) being paramount.</p>
<p>One more thing: Music Major forum on CC is outstanding, including archival posts, in case anyone knows a young student considering meaningful education and a possible future in music. Such a person (and Mom and Dad) will gain much from this forum. I cannot recommend it highly enough!</p>
<p>I have read all the excellent info on the Music Forum, and am using it in some form now with D2. It is phenomenal. And a mighty daunting process.</p>
<p>I will take a look at the Athletic recruit thread for more info about the reasons for the ED coach-driven recruiting at HYP. I am familiar with the athletic recruiting process for athletes at the Ivies and DIII schools: D1 applied three years ago; she is now a rising Junior at a LAC, walked on as a sophomore after transferring to get her major from a different LAC. She was a musician with a supplement in her apps, as well.</p>
<p>My thoughts now about possibilities for purpose/creation of ED Athletic Recruiting by coaches at Ivies and D III schools:
- To compete without financial aid offers (against rules for Ivies and DIII schools) for athletes who are attracted to the financial aid packages allowed for DI and Stanford recruits (which implies a “shortage”…??)
- To keep the coaches happy</p>
<p>Any other ideas??</p>
<p>[Athletic</a> Recruits - Page 2 - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/index2.html]Athletic”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/index2.html)</p>
<p>This post shows the lengthy process for an athletic applicant seeking to secure a Likely Letter from an Ivy coach.
Other posts mention the existence of bands of applicants, ranked by AI. Coaches will send Likely Letters to candidates they are recruiting, and send in a lists of theri recruits who will get slots to the AdComms: the best athletes who need the most pull due to weaker academics.
But, the whole thing is done in time for EA/ED applications. Many recruited athletes send in their apps ED/EA in August. In July, the athletes are pre-vetted by the AdComm to help the coaches make their best choices.</p>
<p>While musicians do meet and even audition with faculty at non-Conservatories, I am not aware of this ever resulting in a promise of admission with a Likely Letter.
I am not aware of any music faculty having slots to fill out themselves.
My understanding is that, at ivies, even when admitted, the musician still has to try out for ensembles and studios and music teachers after they start at the college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is not an entirely equal comparison. When a recruited athlete is given a slot, it is a slot in an extracurricular endeavor, not in the department with any faculty or for a major. In terms of auditioning for a studio or music teacher, that is an academic major. </p>
<p>While not Ivies, a very serious music student who is “tops” might apply to schools for a BM such as Rice, Oberlin, Rochester, Boston University, Northwestern, etc. (sorta the Ivies in music) and indeed does audition for a slot in the class and the faculty recommends to the admissions office who they wish to accept. </p>
<p>But no, there are not promises ahead of time to join the extra curricular orchestra, choral group, dance troupe, etc. at an Ivy League school. </p>
<p>However, very talented musicians, dancers, and thespians will be very desired by the admissions office at an Ivy League school, even if there is no likely letter. Samples can often be shared with faculty in that department and that faculty can put in a word for students that they feel are very talented that they’d wish the adcoms would accept. Or else, why bother with an arts supplement?</p>
<p>I do see a significant difference between a slot guaranteed during ED/EA and a nudge or a tip or a recommendation from a faculty member to highlight a student.</p>
<p>The athletes admitted by Ivy league are not necessarily slouches. The first admit to Harvard from Houston area this year is a volleyball star, all Houston couple of years in a row which is no easy task, was heavily recruited by several serious sports division I schools, was offered a likely also by Princeton and Cornell. She has a 35 ACT, top 2% of her class of 800 or so in a good suburban school, completing an IB diploma for her graduation. </p>
<p>Harvard pool of admitted legacies amounted to 12% this year which makes it about 180 students. If that is 30% of legacy pool, then the full pool amounts to 600.</p>
<p>The class profile for Yale’s 2014 class published on Yale’s website shows 13% legacy and 12% first in family. So it sounds like Both Yale and Harvard reserve that number for legacies. Is it possible that the percentage of legacy admission is steady at these numbers while the actual applications are going up, thus decreasing the admit rate?</p>
<p>As a private institution (business), Harvard (or any private school) has the right to carry out its admissions policy based on its BUSINESS interest. There is nothing you (or I) can do about it, unless you are the President or Member of the Board. I see the argument here on this CC board as totally waste of time. College admission process is a spectator sport to most of us.</p>
<p>It may be that there is an unspoken limit on how dominant they want the classes to be in terms of legacy, and 14% or so is within that limit. </p>
<p>Which brings up a point. At what % of the class (not admissions rate) would a school feel too “clubby”?</p>
<p>“In an interview featured in the September/October 2010 issue of Yale Alumni Magazine, University President Richard Levin said the percentage of recruited athletes in each Yale class has declined from 17 or 18 percent, when he became president, to 13 percent. That reduction has forced coaches to increase their reliance on walk-on athletes to fill their rosters.”. </p>
<p>I totally admit I don’t get sports, but what’s the big deal if “coaches are forced to rely on walk-ons.” so? It’s an extracurricular. Who cares if one year there is no team in a sport, or they play at a lower level? The admissions committee’s job isn’t to ensure that the college newspaper or the Young Republicans roster is filled, so what’s so damn important about the cross country team if it doesn’t get filled?</p>
<p>The walkon process technically works for Ivy league since they dont offer athletic scholarships and only an admission as an incentive. Harvard has a graduating senior from El Paso this year who was admitted as a first in family Hispanic student, walked on to the football team and is considered a star now, and is now a Rhodes scholar going to Oxford. The only goal of Harvard football team is to beat Yale and so it is nt a big deal. Although the presidents may be labelling someone an athlete because the coach got them in, Ivy league does ensure the academics are in place before one is accepted for a very high number of athletes. </p>
<p>However, schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Michigan, UT which compete in a real division I sports conferences are not only offering an admission but full athletic scholarships because the sports are major revenue generators for the school. These are run like multimillion dollar businesses and they are vying for the stars along with all the other big name schools out there who aim to win championships. So the athletes can show up with the bare minimum SAT scores and GPAs if they are true sport stars and still leave after an year or two in sports like basketball because NBA beckons.</p>
<p>I echo Pizzagirl’s question to some extent–while I understand quite clearly why it’s important for the football roster to be filled with the best players possible, I guess I’m not sure why it’s as broadly important for, say, the fencing team to be the best. How many people care strongly if the fencing team is weak in a particular year? How much money does the school stand to lose in donations if a bunch of those sports are weak? I’m genuinely curious about this.</p>
<p>I was reading another thread about Stanford and they admitted best tap dancer in the world this year. So if you are one of the best fencers, does nt that by itself count as an EC to be admitted?</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12617436-post8.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12617436-post8.html</a></p>