Harvard v. Stanford (SC/R)EA? Quandry

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

Hello,

I know that you get quite a lot of questions like the one I’m asking, but I would like to get personal opinions. Now I have researched both of them thoroughly and definitely, Harvard is where I would love to go. However, I’m in a bit of dilemma because of the acceptance rates and some pros/cons that I have researched on.

Before I proceed further, my stats are:

34 ACT, 800 in Math L2 and Physics, Rank 1 in school with massive upward trend for all the years (had relatively low freshman grades), really good ECs (9 leadership positions (varsity sports team captain to school president)), 500+ hrs of volunteer work, I also run my own business (we are in a really early stage, but I managed to get some angel funding through family and friends). I’m sure that my teachers and additional recommenders will write me good recommendations and I hope that I can write good essays.

Pitfalls: Relatively low freshman grades (a B or two), no international level achievement, literally the worst demographic that you can get (international on top of that).
Strengths: ECs (not something that you see everyday), leadership positions, a few decent national level achievements, no FA?

–

Pros of applying to Harvard: get done with apps should I get accepted so that I can focus on the school leaving examinations, a huge advantage in applying early (as visible from the acceptance rates even after the recruited athletes, developmental cases, etc.)
Cons of applying to Harvard: A massive chance that I might get deferred because of lack of good freshman year grades and international awards.

Pros of applying to Stanford: A benefit with the non FA status, no need for 9th grade scores, I can get to know where I stand in the entire admissions process well ahead of the RD deadline.
Cons of applying to Stanford: miss out on the Harvard REA benefits :frowning:

So my question is, should I apply to Harvard or to Stanford early?

Thank you for your time.

2

What country are you from?

3

I don’t see how you can be so worried about your freshman grades AND be ranked no.1 in your class. Anyway, If you indicate you’re the valedictorian, your freshman grades shouldn’t be a concern to most schools as long as you have taken the most challenging classes you could at your school. Stanford will still see your freshman grades, they just don’t figure into their recalculation of your gpa which again doesn’t matter because you’re the highest ranked kid in your school. For an international student, especially if you are from a country such as India, the acceptance rates at both schools are tiny so it really doesn’t matter which school you apply to. Just pick the school that suits you best and hope for the best. Good luck!

4

Greetings @gibby, I’m from India. A simple search on this page (http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics) tells me that on an average, 4-5 students from India enrol at Harvard each year. As far as I know, this year, Harvard accepted 6 people from India (adjusting the yield rate, around 8-10 would be a safe bet). Two of them were accepted during the early admissions round. On the other hand, Stanford accepted around 15-20 people overall, and 4 of them during the early admissions process. While the numbers tell that statistically, I don’t have any real advantage to applying early anywhere, I believe that it can make a significant difference. I would love to hear your advice on the same.

Hello @Falcon1 On observing data from the CDS of a few colleges on my list, all of them seem to value grades more than rank, and that is the reason I was worried. While my scores from 10th grade onwards are near perfect, my 9th grade scores do blemish the record a little (a B or two, as mentioned earlier) My school is fairly known in our region for its rigour and I have taken the most rigorous courses possible. Many students go on to matriculate at some of the topmost colleges in our country, and a few also go on to matriculate at top colleges abroad (we also got our first Harvard admit last year :smiley: ) Thank you for your wishes and I hope that you have a great day!

5

Neither Harvard or Stanford publishes how many students apply each year from India, but I’m guessing the numbers are in the high-hundreds if not a thousand or more. Realistically then, your overall chances are probably less than 1% at either school. So, pick the college you want the most and apply early to them and RD to the other school. In the SCEA round, Harvard defers more people than Stanford, and as they accept more Indian students overall, I would recommend applying SCEA to Stanford and RD to Harvard.

6

@gibby Thank you for your inputs. I’ll keep your advice in mind while taking a final call in a day or two

7

Stanford accepts a much lower percentage of REA applicants than Harvard (10.2% vs. 16.5% last year) and rejects much more outright (80% vs. 9.1% ). Given the strength of your background and that Stanford is your clear first choice, I would not recommend applying there REA.

8

@rennaissancedad Thank you for your valuable insight. I’ll keep that in mind while taking a final call on this in a few day’s time.

9

The difference in SCEA acceptance rates can be partially attributed to recruited athletes, most of whom apply to Harvard in the early round. By Ivy League rules, Harvard cannot recruit more than 240 athletes in any given year, but as Harvard has many powerhouse athletic teams, my guess is that Harvard recruits the maximum, or near maximum, during the SCEA round. Stanford is not bound by Ivy League athletic rules so they don’t recruit as many athletes in the SCEA round. Take recruited athletes out of the mix and the SCEA acceptance rates start looking pretty similar.

Correct, and I look upon that as a positive. As Stanford rejects more students in the SCEA round then they accept or defer, most applicants (high end and low end) know exactly where they stand by mid-December. As Harvard defers more students in the SCEA round than they accept or reject, a student has a greater chance of being left in limbo by mid-December. As international students from India have a greater difficulty of being accepted to HYPSM (as opposed to students from China, Korea, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia etc), I would think it’s better to know exactly where you stand in mid-December, so you can apply to additional RD school’s if need be in the final two weeks of December…

10

If you need financial aid, you should factor in the fact that Harvard is need-blind for internationals while Stanford is need-aware. I don’t know if your figures about Stanford accepting more Indians are correct but if they are perhaps they are explained by Stanford accepting more full-paying students from India. I am just speculating though.

11

^^ Good point about financial aid!

12

@Falcon1 I appreciate your concerns. I have already mentioned that I will not be applying for aid in the first post.

@gibby As always, thank you for the valuable insight.

13

Sorry, didn’t catch that from what you wrote.

14

Statistically, your chances of being admitted REA are equally low (which you already know). It doesn’t matter which in your case. As such, then choose based on the “soft” factors – which would you enjoy attending more? Then apply to that one.

Best of luck to you!

15

Regarding recruited athletes, my understanding is it’s around 200-205 per year at Harvard or roughly 12% of a class. Fewer as a percent of admits, but yield rates for athletic recruits are probably closer to 100% than the ~ 80% baseline yield at Harvard.

http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2013/10/18/future-of-athletic-recruitment-remains-uncertain/

http://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/

I saw a quote from Dean Shaw at Stanford - can’t immediately recall the source - saying athletic recruits are around 13% at Stanford, so pretty similar to Harvard.

Gibby, you may be right though about the proportion of athletes being higher in the EA pool at Harvard than Stanford.

16

I’m certain that @gibby is correct about recruited athletes being a lesser proportion of Stanford’s REA numbers than Harvard’s SCEA numbers. As gibby notes, the great majority of Harvard’s student/athletes enter through the SCEA round. While some of Stanford’s athletes apply REA, Stanford also offers “early reads” for athletic recruits, which result in early acceptances but are outside of the REA statistics.